I am married and have a toddler. Any experiences (good or bad)?
Thanks.
I am am American/Irish citizen and have the opportunity to move to either Milan, Italy or Geneva and wanted to see if anyone here has moved from Italy or vice versa (Switzerland) I live in America now.
I have no experience of living in Italy but I love it! The food is way better than the swiss (sorry to all fondue-lovers ) and personally I find that Italians tend to like children (at restaurants etc.) more than swiss people, but that is a broad generalization .
On the other hand I live in Geneva now and I like it very much, plenty of other foreigners. Its very international (but Milan is probably too?).
No help from me I ́m afraid, but good luck with your choice!
Depends, Milan is more lively, great fashion around and all the positives and negatives of Italy. Not a bad place to be if you like soccer too
Geneva is more compact and is a rather quiet place but people with kids seem to like that, much easier to move around than Milan. Much more international too, Milan despite being X times the size is very mono-cultural on that respect.
Milan or Geneva - it's a good choice, most people would be delighted to be in your shoes. Depends on what you like, what's more important for you.
If I had the choice, I'd go for Milan because I like people and I find the Latin people to be warm and friendly. Geneva, for me, does not have a 'local' community - you'll need to make your own network, composed mostly of expats. I'd imagine that Zurich would be better from that angle.
I've lived all over the world, but not in Italy, so can't say from personal experience - but mates that have worked in Milan loved it.
I am an American. I live in the German speaking part of Switzerland (not Geneva) & have spent some time visiting Milan. If it were me, I'd definitely pick Milan over Switzerland. Generally speaking, I think the Italians are much warmer, friendlier people.
Having just returned form a vacation travelling through Milan to the Ligurian coatal area with one small child, I have to disagree about restaurants. Almost none have child seats available. At least one up-market establishment actively discouraged us from eating there by insisting that we sit way back in the restaurant so as not to disturb other clients. They also eat dinner really late (Most restaurants don't open until 20.00) so no good if you need to put little Johnny to bed early.
However the food is much better. And supermarket food prices are significantly lower than Switzerland.
One other thing to note is that Italians can't drive and they don't even obey Red lights (Especially I found in Milan), So choose Geneva if you are a nervous driver.
You don ́t need a child seat because the children are allowed to run about in most restaurants and no-one will frown upon it. Some restaurants even have play areas (when eating outside). Children also stay up later, I think, than they do here in Geneva. When we where in Italy this spring we ate as late as ten with our toddler and he was not the only child in the restaurant. To me this is more child friendly than having a high chair , it ́s nice to have a meal without worrying about keeping your child quiet or making him/her sit still for hours...
It does seem like kids in Italy just stay up later. It's not unusual to see infants/toddlers in restaurants at 10pm/11pm. And, as a general rule, it does seem like no one minds when the little ones are up and about being themselves.
Driving in Milan is indeed not for the faint of heart. It's a bit like driving in NYC or Paris - it's chaotic, but mostly it seems to work out (just keep moving fluidly to spaces that open up for your car...).
Seems a difference in attitude, for the Swiss and the 'Germanic' people in general I feel, facilities and formality are important.
I'd prefer a place where my kid could run around then if he was strapped up - for me these child seats are a form of control!
When I lived in Madrid, they didn't go out until after 10!
It's rather the British and Americans who are fussy about those things James, I don't remember being sat in a special chair or eating from a ghastly "kid's menu" when I was out to eat as a kid in Switz.
Ah, but your French, no?
It's a bit like asking to a Scot if the is English, James, careful...
Asking a Swiss-German if he is German is like that I agree - they'll point out that they are totally different - in language and culture.
But with the Swiss-French it's a bit different, no? Where I work we here have a number of people that come from across the border from places like Evian, etc and they commute. They seem to consider that Geneva/Lausanne is really a part of France - they just call themselves Swiss!
You have to agree that there is a world of difference in language and culture between Swiss-Germans and real Germans - the Swiss talk different are more 'genteel'. Ie:
1. Refined in manner; well-bred and polite.
2. Free from vulgarity or rudeness.
3. Elegantly stylish: genteel manners and appearance.
But it's quite difficult to find significant differences between Swiss-french and the French people that live in the areas bordering the French parts of Switzerland. Well, I can't find any!
I don't disagree that there is great similarities and having living 12 years in the UK, the differences have melted away, I will always be more at ease to talk to a French than a Swiss-German abroad.
However, in situ, there is a lot of ribbing going on. Those French chaps you talk to might think they're being nice but it would anger a fair few Romands to hear that, seeing in this nothing but arrogance and cultural imperialism and you would be lectured as to what makes us different (read better...) than the French.
The Scots/English example is not one I choose without reason, there are great similarities between our relationships with our powerful neighbours, the French/English generally looking at the Romands/Scots with an air of amiable paternalism tinged with condescendence whilst the Scots/Romands look at the English/French with a modicum of anger and chippiness.
The ultimate test is to watch Switz-France at football in Romandie. My wife, English and a football fan since she was a kid so she knows a thing or two about partisan attitudes related to the game, was shocked by the reaction when Switz played France for a WC2006 qualifier and by the ferocious jubiliation that greeted our equaliser. It paled into unsignificance to the tension that preceded our game at the WC, it surprised a lot of French people (well, a lot, the few that bothered going to the game and stood out in a sea or red )
and the same happens with italians and swiss italians...
but we do love sweeping generalisations, non ? ....
Actually I think the correct interpretation is that they wouldn't mind either being rattached to Switzerland or Savoy being given its independence again.
Indeed, I can totally see how a Heidelberg educated Berliner might seem pale in comparison with a hard-core Swiss armailli.
Well of course other than the French being Catholic and the Republic Geneva a Calvinist stronghold with all the implications thereof, there are really no differences.
And the bloody "French" trying to invade us in 1602 only to be sent packing with a big pot of soup over their heads
Damn right!
Cé qu'è lainô, le Maitre dé bataille...
[note for non-medieval French speakers]
This is the first verse of the Republic of Geneva anthem, based on a popular story recounting the invasion attempt.
[/note for non-medieval French speakers]
I've introduced my inlaws to the marmite crushing stuffing, I even teached them to say "Ainsi perissent les ennemis de la Republique"...