Minimum number of rooms if there's a new baby born in CH

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hi folks!

There are a lot of threads on here confirming that, in order to get a Family Reunification Permit, the family must be living in a home that has enough rooms. And the exact minimum number of rooms, at least in Kanton Zürich, is the number of family members minus one. This can be seen, for example, at https://www.zh.ch/de/migration-integ...ennachzug.html

I've also seen mentions here in EF of people whose Familiennachzug applications have been rejected because their homes didn't have enough rooms, so it's quite clear that this requirement is in fact enforced.

Here's my question: If a family of non-Swiss nationals has a baby in Switzerland, they'll have to apply for a Family Reunification Permit for the new baby as soon as possible (after getting the birth certificate, non-Swiss passport, etc.). Am I right in assuming that when the family applies for the new baby's permit to stay in CH, the minimum number of rooms will increase by one?

Here's a concrete example: My wife and I and our two minor children (so, 4 family members) arrived in CH about two weeks ago. Right now, we have a 3-room flat (i.e., a flat with 2 bedrooms). If we, at some point in the indefinite future, have a third child, then that will mean that our family then has 5 members, and so that also means that our Wohnung must have minimum 4 rooms in order to be successful in getting a permit for the new kid, right?

(And for anyone who has followed my previous threads, just in case you're curious: Yes, we arrived in CH on 1 Nov, just as my wife's employer required. We are still very much getting all the bureaucracy/bureaucrazy sorted -- insurance, banks, childcare, etc. -- but things are moving forward. We registered at the Kreisbüro in Stadt Zürich a few days after we arrived and were immediately given a biometric appointment for the end of November. They told us our permits should arrive in the mail about a week or so after the biometric appointment. Once we get them, we'll finally know whether we got L permits or B permits, though I'm assuming L.)

Thank you so much, lovely people!

Sincerely,

Nederlandse Amerikaan

2
Great, you made it here.

AFAIK they look at lot less at that regulation when you are already here.

Good luck with all the paperwork!

3

I would be more concerned about when you need to increase the bedroom count for the older children. Babies can sleep in a cot in the parents room for a while, but when the other kids get older then they’ll be expected to have their own bedrooms and not share.

4
From the experience of my (also non-EU) friends who recently had kids born here in canton Zurich, it's a non-issue. Actually the kids got their C permits from ZH based on their Swiss birth certificates and parents' permits almost immediately after the birth certificates were issued. Their first 'home' country documents (passports) were issued much much later (our country changed the process for the newborns abroad so you have to actually apply for their citizenship first and then request a passport to be issued, with each step taking 3-4 months).

5
Can I ask who is expecting this?

6
I don’t think they’d expect you to move as soon as a baby is born, as it can sleep in your room for 6-12 months. I hope, that before the authorities needed to intervene you’d realise yourself that your kids need an extra room, and do something about moving.

7
Not true, at least not for Swiss.

Tom

8
+1. My understanding is not that every child needs his or her own bedroom in order to meet the space requirements. Two children sharing a room is acceptable. But I don't have a statute to hand so I could be wrong. I just can't see the Swiss saying that two children under age 5 need separate rooms (for example).

I've often read on EF that the general rule is number of people minus one = number of rooms. Not bedrooms, rooms . In the German-speaking part, that means a 4-person family would need at least a 3-room flat (two bedrooms).

9
Only true for foreigners.

Tom

10

True, but we don’t know the age of the kids involved here. I assume they are fairly young, but once they get up a bit more in years - 8, 9, 10 - I would guess the Swiss authorities would expect them to have their own bedrooms rather than sharing one. Or maybe not until they’re a bit older; may depend on the commune/gemeinde’s views on the subject.

11
Thanks to everyone who has responded! This is all fairly reassuring.

And yes, our two children have always slept in our bedroom for the first year or so before transitioning out. We definitely don't feel the need for more rooms right now, even if we got a newborn; it's just a question of whether Kanton ZH would require us to have more rooms in order to give us the permit for the newborn. And what we really don't want is to find a 3-room place that we really like and then be forced, at short notice, to find a 4-room place right after any new baby is born. But it sounds (I know, there are no guarantees!) like being forced to move is unlikely.

Again, thanks!

Peace,

Nederlandse Amerikaan

12
I don't think so. It's perfectly fine for children to share a room for their entire time at home. There is no requirement to give a child their own room.

13
Welcome and congrats!

The family's already here, in a few weeks or months the child will be born here, obviously you'll want the child to live under the same roof. Why would that fall under family reunion? Outside of family reunion there doesn't appear to be a requirement for the minimum number of rooms.

14

I can’t see kids or Swiss authorities being happy about 2 or 3 15, 16, 17 year olds sharing one room.

Also bear in mind that small places have a limit of the number of people who are allowed to live in them. You’re not going to be able to cram 4 people into a studio flat for example.

15
I apologize if I didn't use the right terminology. Generally, a kid born in CH to non-Swiss parents won't be Swiss, and so they'll have to get a residence permit. The kind of permit they'll get is the kind that allows them to live with their family. I had thought that that was called Familiennachzug (Family Reunification), even if the kid is already with the family in CH. But if the permit is called something else, then I'm very happy to be corrected! :-)

Peace,

Nederlandse Amerikaan

16
No reason to apologize

I'm Swiss, my knowledge here is limited, to put it politely. However the term "FamilienNachZug" implies a move from abroad after one or more grownups have already established residency here. That doesn't apply to your newborn, in that sense it falls out of the sky (thank you very much, Mr Stork!). That's why I wonder if FamilienNachZug actually applies to a domestic childbirth; IMHO the residence permit for a newborn EU citizen who lives with the parents should be a mere formality. Sign the dotted line and off you go to enjoy your merry days.

If the birth takes place in a hospital or a GeburtsHaus, they will take care of the formalitites for you, that's why they need all those documents. Otherwise the parents have to register the birth themselves, this must happen no later than 3 days after the birth.

The Zivilstandsamt of the municipality the birth happens in is the one that has to be informed about the new earthling. Since your location is Zürich, I think the best thing would be for you to contact Zürich's ZivilStandsAmt and see what they say.

17
Thank you, Urs Max! Maybe any such permit just says something like 'Familienangehöriger', which would make much more sense than 'Familiennachzug' in such a situation.

Peace,

Nederlandse Amerikaan