Moving from Ireland, any Irish people out there?

Welcome and Introductions
1
Hi everyone!

I am looking into moving to Switzerland, Zurich or Ticino from Ireland. I don't want to waste people's time with the same type of questions, I have made contact with a job agency and I am getting all the information I can concerning costs, etc.

But my query relates more from the Irish point view, I want to know the opinion of an Irish or a British person, let me explain why:

There is no point in asking a Swiss person about costs of living or related information because it's all relative to this person's experience.

What I want to know is in general how much better would I be in Switzerland compared to Ireland, and only an Irish person can answer this.

1. How does a salary of CHF 110K living and working on the suburbs of Zurich compares to €55K living outside Dublin (Portlaoise) and working on Dublin. My wife works 4 days a week and earns €27K as a manager in Retail but she wouldn't work in Switzerland for a while until she learns the language.

2. Creche, how dear is a Creche compared to Irish an Irish Creche from the local purchasing power point of view. I know is dearer but you earn more wages, but what is the ration of wages vs creche/childminding expenditure in Switzerland compared to Ireland.

This is a very important subject because I have two boys, 3 and 1 years old and once my wife starts working we would have to send them to creche, I've heard that schools in Switzerland have lunch breaks, someone has to pick them up and drop them back to school, and apparently the Swiss education system is made with a stay at home mom culture.

I currently pay €1280 for my two boys in one of the best creches in Portlaoise, full time. The second child have 20% discount, do they have some sort of discounts or some sort of government help for creches taking my possibly income into consideration?

3. Accommodation and utilities, The Swiss lives in apartments, the Irish in houses, I live in a house and I love my garden, is it affordable to rent any type pf house or something with a garden in the country side within reasonable commuting distance to Zurich? If not, how is the life living in an apartment in Switzerland compared to living in a typical 3 bedroom semi-detached in Ireland.

4. Insurance, I went to comparis.ch and they quoted me CHF 600 per month to insure my whole family, am I correct? I pay €2100 per year in VHI for my whole family. HUGE difference there.... But I pay USC which 7% of this goes to the recently introduced health levy, so I am technically paying double health care, private and public thanks to recession so looking at think from that angle I would pay similar moneys in health insurance than in Switzerland but then Switzerland would be loosing its appealing low taxation as from the Irish point of view having to purchase mandatory health insurance is like adding an extra 7% to the 20% income tax I would pay in Switzerland.

4. Social life, I don't want to give the impression that I'm a drunk and we're all a bunch of drunks, but I do like to hit the pub from time t time, at least 3 times per month, eating out and general leisure activities which I assume is very similar in Switzerland. Can you afford to keep that lifestyle? Bear in mind that I have children and I can give €10 to my daughter's neighbour to mind the kids at night while we disappear for a few hours, that brings me to the next question.

5. Neighbours, are the Swiss neighbours as wonderful as they are back home in Ireland? I mean, my neighbours al always gossiping and very nosy but they're always there for when I need help, no questions asked, you know yourself unless you're from Dublin

6. The Craic... What are the vibes, making friends, having a laugh, Are the Swiss pretty much like a German or are they more fun to hang around?

I asked these questions because at te end of the day, in my opinion, money is not everything. I know that on paper I will get more money in Switzerland, pay less taxes, but adding all costs of maintaining a family. Are you better off financially and mentally in Switzerland?

Thank you

2
Welcome to EF.

3
I can't answer your financial questions as I live in another part of Switzerland entirely, but regarding the social aspect it sounds to me like you'd fit in best in the Irish 'colony' of Poll Tais, just outside Zurich on the edge of a very pretty pond. Originally founded by the great Irish writer James Joyce back in the twenties, the colony attracted several artists, writers and philosophers throughout the twentieth century, who were attracted by the fresh mountain air, the convivial atmosphere (or "crack", as I understand you chaps call it) and the locally brewed "Field Castle" ale, second only to Irish stout in flavour and quality.

Flann O' Brien described the residents of Poll Tais as "a grand bunch of lads", and who'd doubt the opinion of the great man himself?

Nowadays the residents tend less towards the creative arts and more towards the somewhat darker arts of finance and database administration, but the colony is still renowned for its heavy drinking culture, its hurling team and its mud.

This is the pond at Poll Tais:

... and here are two of its oldest residents, Bónapárt Ó Cúnasa and Bob Smith:

Does that sound like the kind of place you'd enjoy living in?

4
DB you are quite the welcoming committee. As I'm not Irish I'm not allowed to answer OP's questions, so I'll just say welcome and good luck with your transition.

5
I'm not Irish either, but I've just appointed myself leader of the Irish community in Switzerland.

If anybody wants to sue a museum for the return of the Holy Stone of Clonrichert, I'd be delighted to offer my opinion on the subject.

6
Thanks for the welcome everyone!

Dougal's Breakfast, Poll Tais looks exactly like a typical Irish landscape, that's amazing.

But I don't want to give the impression that I want to turn Switzerland into Ireland or that I want to be near an Irish colony to keep the "Irishness" I've made some questions to know more in details the life in Switzerland from the Irish point of view, pros and cons of having a family in here and in Switzerland so I can evaluate the financial and social side of it to compare it over all with the quality of life we have in Ireland.

If I want to move to Switzerland its obviously because I admire the system and the landscape, one of the main reasons I want to move is the weather, followed by jobs, work culture, political and economic stability. I am pretty sick and tired of summers at 15C, windy and rainy winters with no snow.

I want decent summer, a decent dry winter with snow, being able to ski, drive to France or Italy for holidays and cheaper prices, Switzerland tick all the boxes when it comes to a decent weather combined with a solid economy to allow people to make a decent living.

7
I'm in Basel.. But anyways...

Can pay up to 2500 chf per month on full time child care.

Pint bottle of Magners is 11chf in Irish pub.

... To be honest I'm not sure what to tell you. Yea it's more expensive and I think the first few months/year adjusting will be hard.... But you will learn the tips and tricks

8
Well I'm Irish, but I've been here so long that I really could not comment on your situation. Other than to say that 110K should be enough for a typical middle class Swiss life style.

What I will say is that the work-life balance is far superior over here and the low crime rate means my house remains unlocked throughout the day, the kids walk to and from school and if I left my IPhone on the train, i'd expect to get it back.

9
Hi, I am not Irish either but have spent the last 8 years in Ireland. We have just moved to Bern from Dublin and I think I can comment on a few of your questions.

Firstly childcare: I thought childcare was expensive in Ireland but then I came here and was quoted 4500 Chf per month for full time crèche for two children. I was shocked. However you get subsidies from the state if you earn less than 130000 Chf or so a year and that brings the cost down considerably. However, subsidised places have long waiting lists. So if you end up moving make sure you plan ahead ( I didn't ).

There are very few affordable English speaking crèches and schools in the bern area (Zurich might be a bit better, but not sure what they charge). Depending on who your employer is they might pay towards childcare. In the public crèches, kindergartens ect the local dialect is spoken, which has little to do with German (I don't understand it well and I am a native German speaker). So don't expect your children to learn "proper" German while you are there.

Yes, there is a pretty conservative stay at home parent culture here, but in many families I have met so far, both parents work part time and mind the children one or two days a week, so I think employers are relatively flexible that way.

My experience is, that a lot of things here are means tested, and that there is a social system, that creates some form of social justice. I have missed this in Ireland. However, in Ireland people are extremely generous and help each other out, which makes up for the missing social net.

We have not been here long, but find it very hard to make friends (that's why I hang out on this forum.....). I find the Swiss rather reserved and xenophobic, at least towards Germans.

Briefly, there are great jobs here, and a well organised, efficient state and good weather (all big differences to Ireland :-) ) However , the cost of living is extremely high. Basically, I earn double what I would have earned in Ireland but after paying rent, food and health insurance I have little more left than what I would have had in Ireland. So from that point of view I don't think it is worth moving. Building standards are very high here and rental accommodation is generally impeccably maintained. If you are used to having house and garden you might find it hard moving to an apartment especially with children. Houses for rent are very expensive, even in suburban areas, so you might have to move to the proper countryside.

I have to admit that I am pretty homesick for Ireland at the moment and if you asked me today whether I would move again, I would say no.....Money is not everything as you say, and living amongst Irish people is hard to beat.

10
You've listed Spanish and English as your native languages.

You've mentioned you'd like to live in a house.

Honestly? I don't think you'll like it here. You'll probably need to live in an apartment and I'm not sure if you'll enjoy the lack of privacy and easy-goingness here. However, if you're a fan of rules and have 4 diplomas and can speak 2 languages fluently, you may find a job even though you lack German skills. It won't guarantee a noise-proof flat though.

11
A winter with snow cannot be dry. Sorry, my "below 125 IQ" self thinks so anyway. Switzerland is absolutely gorgeous and a bundle of laugh, especially on this Forum! Welcome!

12

DB, I laughed so much my jaws are aching! Thank you so much, you've made my day!

13
WHo said the Germans were not fun to be around? Plenty of them where you want to move, so you'd better befriend them...they might be your next employers!

3 times a month in the pub?? You cannot be Irish!

For housing, check immoscout24.ch, you'll get a good idea of housing prices. Zurich and Geneva are two of the 5 most expensive cities in the world, especially for house prices. Good luck.

14
That'll be a Gaelic month (mí na gaeilge). There are 144 of them in a year.

15
To me a dry winter means the proper definition of a winter, not rain almost every single day like in Ireland. It's a metaphor

16

It is true that metaphors for winter would be in the Irish essence. I only know this one by Seamus Heaney, but more about Spring (among other things!)

Rite of Spring

So winter closed its fist

And got it stuck in the pump.

The plunger froze up a lump

In its throat, ice founding itself

Upon iron. The handle

Paralysed at an angle.

Then the twisting of wheat straw

into ropes, lapping them tight

Round stem and snout, then a light

That sent the pump up in a flame

It cooled, we lifted her latch,

Her entrance was wet, and she came.

17
There are no shortage of 'Irish' pubs in Zurich if that helps

http://www.shamrock-irishpub.ch/

http://www.kennedys.ch/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/McGee...b/163077430307

http://www.irish-pub.ch/

18
Here's my favourite, by Gerald Fitzpatrick-Fitzgerald:

Wednesday

'Twas a soft day, to be sure

Just like the one before

And the one that came just prior to that

And the ones the week before.

With a welly full of mud

I didn't feel so good

I stood in the rain with my soggy old hat

And a sack of mouldy spuds.

I was after a cup of tea

Kebab and chips, maybe

I wished I was rather in Kos or Eilat

Than stuck here in wet Trallee.

19
Aww, bless. My fave post by a newbie in quite a long time. You do realize why Switzerland is nearly as green as Ireland?

No worries. Life is what you make it no matter where you go. You've got a positive attitude and you're doing your homework, so you're off to a good start.

20
I moved down here from Benelux but born and bred in Ireland before that so here my two pence worth.

Difficult to compare salary but living in Portlaoise on 55k is prob not far off 110k Swiss including cost of living adjustment. You can get by but dont expect to save a whole lot. Try this calculator to estimate your net income depending on what kanton etc you will live in. http://www.lohncomputer.ch/en/why-lohncomputer.html

Make sure you get good offer, don't be afraid to take it to wire as salary increases are small even for exceptional performance. Get relocation allowance 10-15% of annual salary as everything is very expensive here, german classes, temporary accommodation as finding somewhere to live especially in Zurich can take time.

As your wife will take a while to learn Swiss german and find it hard to work especially in retail without the lingo, make sure she is happy with being a stay at home mum. Nothing worse than an unhappy wife in a foreign country!! With the cost of crèches here it is better that she looks after the kids, as you say the school times here are set up for stay at home mothers.

Kids are perfect age as they are still toddlers so learning the lingo is easy at that age.

For accommodation get used to the idea of living in an apartment as houses are very difficult to find and expensive. On the bright side the standards of apartments are very high and don't compare it to the junk they built in the Celtic Tiger days. Normally water, heating are included up to moderate usage. If you use over what you paid you will get a bill when calculated if you use under you get something back.

I looked in Zurich but decided to live in Kanton zug as cheaper to rent and more choice available, you also save on the taxes as cheaper here. But downside is social life.I work from home when not travelling so location not a big deal once within reasonable distance of Zurich airport.

Health insurance in the biggest expense after rent, I pay 700 per month for myself , wife and six year old, few extras on top of the basic but shop around.

Social life is ok but not Ireland, in Zurich you have a good social life better than where I live in Zug but ok. Eating out in Switzerland is very expensive too like everything else.

Like living in Dublin neighbor's are hit and miss, Swiss are more reserved but lots of foreigners here who are more open and friendly.

All in all I can recommend it, if you are open minded to change and ready to immerse yourself in new culture. Biggest benefit is for kids, facilities and safety is incredible. Here is a great location close to Germany Italy, france for vacation etc

Reply or PM me if you need more info