Hi folks. looking for simple and hopefully clear advice - have read many of the threads and still left unclear :-(
We (me, wife and child) are moving from UK to France. However, I will be paid by my company who are based in Zug (Cham) who tell me they would deduct tax at source at the local (VERY low rate).
We are planning to live full time near Chamonix. My job is European so it doesnt matter where I live but it suits my company to attach me to the Zug office and pay me as a local Swiss local. I will be visiting the UK but far less than 90 days a year. I dont need to go to Zug at all..
So, my question is simple - how would my tax be treated?
My HR guy in CH seems to think I would just pay the local income tax and do a French return declaring that I have paid my tax and France may levy local taxes only. This would be lovely as it would fund my rent! It also sounds too good to be true..
Many thanks in advance for your advice!
I suspect you will be liable to full French tax on your worldwide income , capital gains & wealth.
Geneva has a special tax deal with France but don't think Zug does.
Skier or Snowborder? I spend way too much time at the Grand Montets, 17 season passes to date
Yep - I would tread very carefully and check with a specialised accountant. The low tax rate in Zug is for tax residents, as far as I understand.
Not up on this at all, but when in Switzerland you are taxed where you reside, not where you’re employed. So you could work in Zug, but if you live in Zurich you’d be taxed in Zurich. I would think the same thing would apply here. You live in France, you’ll be taxed at French rates and Zug rates wouldn’t come into it.
Technically you wouldn’t be a Swiss resident and therefore wouldn’t pay taxes here. You’ll be living in France and I would think be subject to all relevant French taxes.
Not liking the replies so far :-(
Is there no "frontalier" arrangement in Zug?
I am sure I could appear in the Cham office a few times a month...
What permit will you have? A few times a month would not make you resident.
Zug is surrounded by Switzerland, hardly a frontalier sort of place. Geneva on the other hand has very high taxes (about 3 times that of Zug) so can hand some over to France to make the French happy.
I think you truly need professional advice. Actually frontaliers working in Geneva pay taxes in Geneva, but where I live (Neuchatel Canton) frontaliers pay taxes in France, and the French Gvt pays back a certain % to Neuchatel- exactly the other way round to Geneva. If you look at a map, you will see that Zug is not a border region and that frontier status does not apply. Popping in to Zug from time to time will not cut the mustard, that is for sure.
It would be a G permit..
Crying shame if this is the case as really wanted to be based near Chamonix - ski for me/board for wife. Was going to be Chamonix/Les Gets area to take advantage of the bigger UK expat community and ease into French life..
French taxes nowhere near as attractive as Swiss ones sadly unless one has several children!
Unfortunately as has been pointed out Zug isn’t one of the cantons that would have a cross-border agreement which is the only way you’d get a G permit. In addition part of the requirement for a G permit is that you must return to your home abroad at least once a week. Which implies that most of your working time should be spent in Switzerland, a few times a month wouldn’t qualify you. Even if you could get a G for Zug I expect the authorities would want you to be working 3/4 days every week in Switzerland in order to qualify.
I’m afraid on the basis of what you’ve said that you won’t qualify for any type of Swiss permit and that all taxes will be paid to France.
I suggest that you or your HR person contacts the Swiss Federal Office of Migration to clarify your situation before you go any further with your plans.
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/home/die_oe/kontakt.html
There is a relatively simple solution to this, which is to become Swiss resident in Zug and get a B permit, and therefore pay tax there. As far as I understand it, and this applies to us too, if you spend 60 or more working day nights in Switzerland then not only are you allowed to be resident there, but in fact you have to be. In essence if you were spending more time that that in CH then you would not be allowed to have a G permit.
Of course, to do this you need a genuine address in Zug, and to be able to back up any claims of actually living there. How long you actually spend there is between you and your conscience, of course, and in the six years or so since the bi-lateral agreement that defines this came into place we've never once been asked about how many nights we spend there, although in fact we genuinely do spend more time than that in CH.
Occasionally we may get stopped by the Swiss customs, as happened just the other morning, when I said "we have a house in France where we're coming from this morning, but yes, we actually live in Engelberg". No problem. In this time we've not once been stopped by French Douanes on the way into Basel.
Not near enough to Chamonix though. Still, I would guess there are equally good ski/board places nearer to Zug.
Nowhere in the world equals Chamonix........ Andermatt has some interesting skiing, but not quite the same as Chamonix.
The distance restrictions for a EU25/EFTA G permit have been lifted. You can live anywhere in EU/EFTA and get G permit. But as you say, it implies you are working IN Switzerland and returning home at the weekends.
"Cross-border commuters from EU/EFTA member states are granted professional and geographical mobility within all of Switzerland’s border zones. No such border zone regulations exist for citizens of EU-25 and EFTA member states. These persons may live anywhere in the EU/EFTA region and work anywhere in Switzerland provided they return to their place of residence abroad once a week. The border zone regulations remain in force for citizens of EU-2 member states (Bulgaria and Romania)."
http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...g_eu_efta.html
Chamonix is OK, I suppose, with some interesting areas and a few challenging runs, but really not anything like as good as it's often made out to be. Long-time Chamonix skiers have been known to be quite overawed by the off-piste skiing we have in Engelberg, which also has the advantage of not getting completely tracked out by 11am the morning of a decent dump of snow...
You can find powder for a long time if you don't mind some uphill & have some mountaineering skills to access the powder. Of course it's only the GM that gets tracked out by 11am. Brevant & La Tour offer easy access for several days, & several weeks slightly lower down the Valley.
The scenery is so very different, is it's probably the greatest attraction.
I object to paying 5 CHF to park in Engelburg, even early season when very few lifts are open & the lift pass is full price. Gouging visitors is common in CH, which is why I only ski in Verbier as it's covered on the Chamonix pass (free parking as well)
I always laughed that Engleburg charged tourists more to go up to the glacier than a 6 week end of season lift pass