Naturalisation in Gemeinde Baar/Kanton Zug

[KiwiSteve]

I think you have the hierarchy of Heimatort/Canton/Country wrong. I have two Heimatorte in two different Cantons, but only one is listed in the passport. This summary concentrates on Swiss who are born in Switzerland: Heimatort, sweet Heimatort: the unique Swiss concept of home - SWI swissinfo.ch

[Aargauer]

@TinyK

highly educated migrants that do not use German in real life and are only learning it for the purpose of naturalisation.

A person who doesn’t speak the language of the country they plan to get naturalized at least to basic fluency (I personally think about B2, but let’s say C1) has no business of becoming a citizen. This is not a purely economic administrative process - even Jeff Bezos would have to go through the same requirements any other person has to go through - this is imho a very weak argument.

@TinyK

people with lower level of education in general: some of them may struggle to write a two pages text about the “UNO summit on the global warming” even in their native language. Also they have less money for language courses.

Low education has very little to do with the acquisition of language. There are 70iq Swiss people as well, they are still native speakers of (Swiss) German and way above a B2 level.

Contrary to what many people believe, the framework of european languages tests practical use of language NOT academic linquistics (aka: they don’t ask you to write a conditional sentence in the 3rd participe plural etc.).

@TinyK

Also people in their circle often switch to high German when they are around.

That is not a problem - you need to understand Swiss Germany, but you are allowed to speak the standard language yourself.

@sichuan

Well, you sound like the cantons had a free choice to be or not to be part of Switzerland. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true on paper, but in practice I bet it’s impossible because all who have the place of origin (heimatort) there but are living elsewhere would have the right to vote, wouldn’t they?

I mean I just linked to the constitutional article - some cantons joined out of self interest, others were conquered .

@sichuan

People who desire the Swiss passport often quote ZH (especially Zurich city) as the best bet to get it done.

This isn’t something to be proud about. I expect the Swiss authorities to do a good due dilligence process and practice naturalization selection in a way that serves Switzerland as a whole, not to get things done fast or whatever.

@sichuan

Regarding my intentions, I’m ambivalent about this on one hand it feels like I should have the same right as everyone else around after living so many years in Switzerland, but on the other what for? I can’t complain about anything and since I have no children there’s no reason to stay here on retirement.

Imho this is just a misunderstanding on what rights and privileges you are entitled to. Paying taxes here, living here for X years does not make you Swiss - none of this is relevant in isolation. You can even grow up here and your kids and even their grand kids aren’t Swiss, if they don’t formally go through the process of naturalization - that’s the only thing that matters, not the intent, your (or my) feelings or whatever else.

I personally am not against naturalization at all, quite the contrary - I know many people I wish they became Swiss, but they either don’t want to (EU citizens) or they don’t fulfill the location requirements. Naturalization is a part of inner politics of a country and the law is clear here: There is no general legal claim to naturalization, neither on the municipal, cantonal nor federal level. Example of Bern:

BSG 121.1 - Gesetz über das Kantons- und Gemeindebürgerrecht > (Kantonales Bürgerrechtsgesetz, KBüG)

Art. 19 Kein Rechtsanspruch
(1) Es besteht kein Rechtsanspruch auf Einbürgerung und Einburgerung.

[sichuan]

@Aargauer

I expect the Swiss authorities to do a good due dilligence process and practice naturalization selection in a way that serves Switzerland as a whole, not to get things done fast or whatever.

You can’t have an apple and eat it - on one hand you argue that the canton has the most to say in naturalization as it becomes the place of origin so it shouldn’t be ceded to the federal rules ruling it all, on the other you seem to criticize other cantons approach arguing that naturalization is a country level thing

@Aargauer

they don’t fulfill the location requirements

yea, that’s me. In the past I thought about citizenship but it wasn’t my priority. I could have avoided moving, but well… and the older I am the more I view it pointless - if I stay in Switzerland, permit C is as good as citizenship, if I leave for retirement there’s no much use of the passport. Finally, a citizenship can be revoked (in general, nothing particular to a Swiss one), especially when someone has multiple.

[Aargauer]

@sichuan

You can’t have an apple and eat it - on one hand you argue that the canton has the most to say in naturalization as it becomes the place of origin so it shouldn’t be ceded to the federal rules ruling it all, on the other you seem to criticize other cantons approach arguing that naturalization is a country level thing

I chose my words poorly I guess - when I say the Swiss authorities, I don’t mean the split between Canton and the federation, I just mean our administration in general (no matter at what political level). It’s also not me who argues this - you seem to misunderstand me here - the law is the way it is. I don’t really find it sensible personally.

@sichuan

in Switzerland, permit C is as good as citizenship, if I leave for retirement there’s no much use of the passport. Finally, a citizenship can be revoked (in general, nothing particular to a Swiss one), especially when someone has multiple.

While the revocation is possible, it’s highly unlikely and almost not realistic in practice. An other thing is the fact that a permit is not the same as a citizenship.

A residency permit (both B and C) merely “permit” (duh) you to live here. They can basically be revoked at the discretion of Switzerland at any time if in their interest. (In German it’s called Bewilligung, the name already tells you what it really is).

A passport (citizenship) however grants you the right to live and reside in Switzerland. They have to take you in - even further, they may have to come and get you from around the world and rescue you, if shit hits the fan - even if you’re broke or a Terrorist (provided they don’t revoke the passport).

[sichuan]

@Aargauer

They have to take you in - even further, they may have to come and get you from around the world and rescue you

yes, that’s a big difference

[BaarBaby]

Hi @zug and @TheExile , and other community members who have been this situation, could you please roughly quantify what was in your case - the time duration between: your Kantonal knowledge & receiving the SEM invoice ( CHF 100 per person i think).

The time from SEM inovice payment to their decision, is well qualified above as ca. 3 months.

Many thanks guys, this has been hugely helpful, in this anxious waiting process :).

Cheers and wish everyone a lovely Autumn !!

[TheExile]

@BaarBaby
It was roughly 6 weeks. I think the usual waiting time from Kantonal interview to SEM bill is anything between 4 - 8 weeks. On average is 6. One of the reasons is they don’t send applications to Bern every day as far as I know. It’s once a week or something.

Also, from 1st of August, Kantons can submit SEM applications electronically. In the long term it’s going to improve things for sure. However, there may be some teething issues.

How long have you been waiting?

Kind Regards,

[BaarBaby]

Thanks a lot @TheExile. Much appreciate your fast reply. Its only been 1.5 weeks , but i ended up waiting a lot between Gemeinde interview and Kantonal interview, and hence just wanted to know.

Best wishes.

[BaarBaby]

Hi @TheExile - just wondering if you got the letter from Kanton asking for no change in situation? I had my Staatbuergerliche gespraech about 2 months ago, paid the SEM invoice 3 weeks ago. Just curious to know your timelines to extrapolate mine

[TheExile]

Hi @BaarBaby,
Yes, we have just got the SEM approval (yay!) and a letter from Kanton asking if anything changed. The time it took from SEM invoice to SEM approval was bang on 3 months. By the looks of it, in Zug it takes roughly 3 months from SEM bill to SEM approval (judging by other’s experiences). I would consider this quite good actually.
Just enjoy the beautiful autumn. You will get your silver letter in about 8 weeks
Will let you know as soon as got any updates from Gemeinde / Kanton.
Kind Regards.