Negative experience with a landlord

Accomodation, House and Garden
1

Hi there!

As I understand it’s best not to name a company to avoid its defamation, hence I’d just say the landlord is rather a large reputable company.

In February, 2025 I was moving out and we signed a “convention de sortie”; I later tried to dispute it via email, as an example: my POV holes in the walls are normal use and not a reason for a repaint - their POV yes but it was not done professionally hence it’s gross negligence, go to the court if you want etc.

In the end I thought whatever and decided to go over it, most of it would be paid by my insurance anyways.

Nevertheless, they kept postponing invoices - I was sending reminders every 1-2 months and only now when I intensified my reminders now in November - they managed to obtain invoices and issue them to me.

And the way they did it,

  • they provided 2 original invoices
  • they provided 2 their invoices with no detalisation as for which positions were taken over and why, and how ammortisation was computed

Original clearly contain positions not agreed upon via “convention de sortie”, for example: i.e. new shelves, a complete polish of the parquet (we agreed only to replace one piece and pieces around it where I put a hole in with my sofa and they revarnished/polished the full surface of 60m2+) etc.

I’ve chatted extensively about it with ChatGPT and also did a classical search and more or less I understand what my options are (registered letters, joining a tenants’ association, going to a local tenant court), yet I wonder about your (human) input.

Just to be precise my original “convention de sortie” was like this: repaint 4 walls, one ceiling (also due to holes), do a cleaning, with an estimate ~3,3k. - with amortisation applied later to reduce it (for walls). They did a bunch of stuff for ~6,3k and with unclear ammortisation included billed me ~3,1k. The invoice on my name and due in 30 days. I have a SwissCaution but they go via me first which I guess is normal.

I guess my overall question if it is normal to be handled like this in Switzerland? My first landlord was complete opposite but it was also a small firm.

I asked in my email to detail every position of original invoices, its amortisation and its relation to “convention de sortie”
If they ignore I proceed with registered letters
If no luck I involve my insurer and explain all my attempts additionally to invoices
I may also try the local court and the association

But I am having a WTF on my mind, is it normal?

2

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Today is kind of stress day at work. Will comment about the issue later. Hope other forum members reply first.

1 Like
3

I think the “human input” would be to recommend the tenants’ association as a first port of call now you seem to have got nowhere over the past few months. It’s also difficult to assess the wear and tear (or damage) your landlord agency claims you did. Maybe your interpretation of “normal use” is beyond the threshold of what they will accept. That would then be something that the tenants’ association can help you with.

4

I agree Tenant’s Association should be your next stop.

A few years back I became a reluctant landlord for complicated reasons. I joined ASLOCA, the Romande tenant’s association because no-one knows the laws better. Their advice was invaluable to me.

5

I guess this is the issue. You expected depreciation/amortisation over 3.3k of repairs, they spent 6.3k and start counting from there.

It’s a bit weird that they don’t provide invoices. That brings clarity to issue.

Tangential story. Earlier this year, the kitchen sink in my apartment got blocked. I called the building admin and they sent a plumber. At the end of the job I had to sign the report from the plumber. To my surprise, the plumber came from another canton and the travel time was 3 hours while the job was 1 hour. It wasn’t an urgent job, the plumber came 2 days after I called them. I paid nothing this time, but it was an opportunity to see how the system works.

So, send a registered letter about the invoices. They might be funny things in there which can be regarded as unfair billing. Either you defend yourself, or rely on the insurance company, you’ll need them anyway.

6

I understand your story.

A few clarifications,

  • 6.3k included things I did not sign up for, for example revarnishing the entire floor
  • They put operation costs of companies (250 CHF + 450 CHF, like travel, garbage removal that they produced) - this seems so much?
  • Amortisation which I don’t know how they did it, doesn’t make sense. Help me if my understanding is wrong but it is like so: the building is from Jan (+/- up to Mar) 2020, it had 2 tenants before me, never repainted, I moved in in Dec 2022 and moved out in Feb 2025. Paint is ammortized in 8 years (96 months), hence I had about 35 months of the unammorized paint when I left. Or is my math wrong. So if I take some relevant positions from the invoice of their vendor that they base on, IDK how they ammortised it, it’s clearly more than X / 96 * 35
7

Personally I never had such issue, but I’ve heard from friends that it’s best to hand the claim to your insurance. The insurance will quickly knock off any ripoff. Even if they are obliged to cover whatever it takes they are not happy to spend more than they have to.

8

Thanks! BUT, if the invoice is on my name, it’s pending on my name, so if insurance is unhappy with some of it, won’t I just become debtor? How would it work

9

The way you’ve calculated it looks okay based on my understanding of how it works. I wonder whether the amortization is truly 8 years though?

The Mieterverband (that’s the German version of the tenants’ association) distinguishes between 8-year and 15-year paints/wall coatings. Here’s a screenshot and you can Google translate:

image
image807×178 11.6 KB

If whatever they replaced had a lifespan of 15 years, it not only costs more per m2, but you would have many more months to cover. Might that explain some of the cost difference you’re seeing?

10

They will “fix it” by back and forth with their lawyers and the agency then pay what’s really needed.

11

Ok, I sent it to my insurance along with copies of my email exchanges, registered letters and a brief description of the problematic situation, I hope they respond on time…

12

Should you receive a reminder or other request to pay, don’t ignore it. Respond in the same manner and say that you have given it to your insurance company to handle.

In fact it may be an idea to send them a registered letter that says the same thing.

You don’t want to appear to be ignoring them or be unwilling to settle.

1 Like
13

Yes, considering their overall approach to me (first to put it politely “conservative” charges for holes in the wall forcing me to repaint all such walls, second, after my complains and follow-ups throughout almost a year for an invoice - an invoice with only a partial overlap of “convention de sortie” and unclearly ammortized / inflated amounts - almost seems like a revenge for me daring to dispute and chase for invoices) - I wouldn’t be suprised they are actually aiming something like this and as I understand this is a grey area, i.e. they can do it right after 30 days without sending reminders/falling back to SwissCaution, and it can still leave a trace on me in debt records even if it’s disputed - right?

3,6k is of course not something I can’t pay, it’s just if I do pay it I guess it’s a lost case?
And also I’m just frustrated so much with them to just pay, from the moral/justice POV.

And just to add to it even if my insurer chooses to pay or pay partially, I am still at loss as I’ll loose some discount etc. didn’t look much into that.

14

I also contacted Asloca (I wasn’t a member and I no longer live in Romandy - so I wanted to ask if I can still join and benefit), and they asked me to pay a membership fee to schedule a consulation. Considering time of the year I’ll be paying basically their fee twice (they operate in calendar years and accept cancellations until the end of November) + admin fee. I wouldn’t mind still but does it make sense after sending it to my insurance, will they both coordinate or chase different goals?

15

I wouldn’t bother with Asloca now. Although you think the amounts are unfair, it’s possible your insurance will either pay or dispute the amounts directly. +1 for Bowlie’s advice if the agency contacts you again, to send a registered letter informing them that you’ve passed everything along to the insurance company.

1 Like
16

After numerous follow-ups the guy responded in a generic manner that ammortisation was done in accordance to tables of VD, that there were transparent enough and that amounts were just an estimate (twice less) and brought my attention to the due date of the invoice. I.e. he’s avoiding detalisation basically because what I am asking is to detalise each position of a vendor invoice (there’s like 6 in total):

  • in relation to which point of “convention de sortie” it was charged over to me (if applicabe)
  • if applicable - how it was ammortized

The same company has no problem with detalising electricity invoices and discussing it when challenged so I don’t think I am asking for too much.

17

And they refused strongly to provide a breakdown, demanded mail only correspondence and forward it to their legal dept.

18

I think it’s probably still worth joining asloca as they have lawyers working for them who can give you proper legal advice regarding the correct steps to take.
You can see the amortisisation tables on their website so you can already check those.

19

Yes, maybe give me a few days to see how responsive my insurer is and what they say.

Another interesting detail, in their latest letter they shared that the building was built in April 2021

And I found in my contract this standard attachment, how much the previous tenant paid, and it says, paid from February 2021

And I know it was the 2nd tenant in this new building already (not sure if they mean a generic tenant or a specific tenant though).

Crazy.

20

So the insurance decided to pay even knowing they’re being taken advantage of and I only pay my deductible. I am super annoyed but whatever I guess..

1 Like