Hello,
I would be glad if someone could help me.
I've just received a termination of my contract .
Contract was for undefined period of time, and I received termination notice during the first year of service .
Both - by law and by the contract it's said that notice time should be one month.
My employer would like to make it shorter, I would like it to stay one month, as it is.
Nevertheless, we are normal people with rather positive attitude to each other, so we would like to negotiate.
The question is - can we negotiate, and don't end up with some problems?
I've heard that in some situations notice time CAN'T be limited to less than one month . I can agree to work a little shorter, and receive a little less money for that, but I don't want to have any problems because of the result of our negotiations.
For instance, if we agree to make it shorter, but later I would like to register myself at RAV, also my employer may have some problems for making notice period shorter (even though, both sides made agreement).
Unless you already have a new job you can start immediately I can't see a single reason why you should be willing to negotiate the notice period. If you do it, however, RAV is not going to replace the money you lose.
The employer is obligated to provide you with the final calendar month's work and related salary (e.g. if you were terminated this week, then your last day is April 30th). Likewise, you are obligated to provide your services to him/her until that date.
If both of you, however, negotiate and agree to reduce your obligations to each other (though I can't see why you would want to, unless it's something like the employer is a personal friend and you know the business is going through hard enough times that he literally cannot pay you), then you are certainly able to do so.
The only caveat is that one party cannot unilaterally decide to change the above conditions, e.g. the employer cannot reduce your notice period without your consent.
And of course, as TexasLynette said, you won't receive unemployment money for the time where you could have been working but chose not to.
they can ask that you not come in, but they still legally need to pay you to the end of the official notice period. Don't negotiate yourself out of payment but if they would prefer not to have you come in, that is their choice, but they can't ask not to pay you - well they can ask, but you don't need to agree!
Thank you very much for advises.
I don't know yet what to do, my situation is rather complicated.
The employer also doesn't seem to take these expenses easy.
I try to understand it, but after all someone with a company, is rather always in better financial condition, than a single employee, with more-less minimum wage, that he or she just lost.
Termination of the contract was not my fault anyway.
Mostly people are saying that it would be naive to agree to negotiate...
But good references have also some value...
I understand your concerns about the references. However, I still believe that you should insist on your rights here. And if the employer gives you a bad reference letter because you rightfully insisted on the legal notice period you could still get help at the RAV, I guess.
There's no guarantee to get a good reference letter if you accept your employer's conditions. The simple fact that he tries to negotiate you out of your rights gives me a very bad impression about that person's character.
I believe you should not step back from the 1-month notice period, unless you already have a new job or you are willing to lose out financially for any reason.
1 month is quite little and the employer should be able to pay you that. He entered the contract with his eyes wide open and he should respect that.
If you wish to leave earlier, then that is another story.
The moment (day) that the employer serves you the Termination letter, you should immediately inform RAV. Failure to do that will result in a penalty. They may withhold payment or partial payment because you did not inform them.
If you received the Termination letter already, I suggest you call them up and set up an appointment ASAP.
Sorry to hear about your plight, but be assured in CH, employees enjoy quite a bundleful of rights (compared to most other countries).
As for the reference letter, if it is not neutral nor good, you can reject it and ask for a newer one. You may be forced to write your own "neutral" version and let the manager sign it.
Never accept a bad referral letter. It means you agree with its contents.
Good luck.
Thank you everyone for help and support , you have much more experience on that, and I'm just a naive simple girl...
Good, that I decided to wait, and not to sign anything in "not emotionally stable" mood.
I have one more question - is recommendation obligatory?
Of course I mean, if it's obligatory as a document, or it's just up to will?
As per name "recommendation" shouldn't be mandatory, but who knows here in Switzerland?
Of course I know that what it contains - it's up to will and opinion of a former employer. So there - you have no rules, and you may only accept or not accept what it contains.
I meant only if it's one of the mandatory documents by finishing a contract.
What if one doesn't have recommendation from some positions (the reason for not having it may be different, and even regardless to the quality of job and competences)?
Basically your entitled to a good reference unless you did something dishonest.
May be you should try to postpone negotiations on notice period after you receive the recommendation letter. Talk to your employer, that should be fair.
That is what my employer refused to do, saying that it would be mayyybe possible, but not fully legal, because such document is a summary of employment relation, and how can it be a summary, if it's not finished yet.
But let's say I will probably stop worrying about references so much...
If he's willing to follow the law to the latest corner then ask for an Intermediate Certificate (Zwischenzeugnis) covering up to the point where you plan to negotiate the notice period. He's clearly black mailing you. May be you can get some additional tips from the RAV.
As mojado points out, you are entitled to ask for a written reference at any time.
It is in fact a very clear legal obligation for the employer to provide it to you - they cannot refuse because they do not like the timing.
In the first year of service, they probably don't have to write more than the OP is employed.
Bottom line, your contract is with a company, not a person. Whatever your employer's personal finances are like, as long as that company still exists, it has to honor its contracts. Insisting that it do so is absolutely correct behavior and nothing to feel guilty or embarrassed about.
It's hard to do sometimes, but you really need to separate your positive feelings toward this person from your intentions toward his company. You can have all the "understanding" in the world toward him personally, and still insist that the contract be carried out as it was signed.
Imagine you're the telephone company, if that helps. What do you think they'd say if your employer's company approached them with a request to let him pay 50% less than contracted? Your obligations are no different.
Perhaps I do not understand your situation completely, but to me the question is quite clear.
You have an employment contract that states that your notice period is 1 month. Upon termination of said contract you can negotiate your last day with your employer but you still get paid for that month –this is not negotiable –this is in the contract.
If the employer wants you to leave on the 15th of the month then you can leave, but the “official” date in the paperwork needs to still be at the end of the month. In many contracts you cannot even break the contract in the middle of the month. This means if you were let go on the 5th of March then the employer can’t actually do that until the end of March --In this scenario they would need to pay you until the end of April (one month after official notice).
If I was in the same position I would leave whenever the employer wants me to leave, ensure a smooth transition of my job back to the organization, collect my Zeugnis, and then collect my last salary at the end of the term.
If the employer wants you to leave early and then pay you less it sounds like they want to take advantage of the situation –this would not be very fair.
Who wins in that situation?
Nope - they have to provide a full reference (the scope is defined by law) at any time. Technically you can also request one during your trial period
Can I ask for the information, where is it defined by law, that they're obliged to give me full reference anytime I ask for it?
As far as I know it's OR 330a:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/220/a330a.html
There is an english translation here
http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/220/a330a.html
Must point out: I am not a lawyer.