As for the cat - not much you can do about that. Buy a house with a garden - you get cats. Make friends with it and have fun.
Dude, you don't know every Swiss person; such sweeping statements saying this is "Swiss"" behaviour helps no-one. These particular people are perhaps acting in a selfish, non-neighbourly way, but I assure you this is not limited to Swiss. All my Swiss neighbours are great, not a single one exhibits this so called "Swiss" behaviour. I have had British neighbours act far worse than this toward me.
To keep cats away, a couple of things to try are:
Grated orange peel. They apparently don't like this. You can put this in the flower beds and/or on the lawn.
Chili flakes are also good. I used to go grab a big container of these at costco back in the states for the neighbor's cat who liked to dig up my lawn/garden.
keeping a dog or 2...
This doesn't keep cats away, at least not where we live...and we have 3 dogs. I have never seen cats this persistent. Our dogs are very busy chasing the cats away, but they keep coming back.
My problem is we have a parrot and we can't leave her outside until we find a solution to the cats. I thought it was the dogs...but seems I am wrong.
I have a neighbour with ducks in an enclosure and he has barbed wire on top of his chain link fence which is already very high. How high can a cat jump?
I had a Maine Coon Cat that would keep dogs away and could easily jump/scamper over an 8 foot fence.
Our family home had a 6 foot high interleaved wood fence. The neighbours' cats could easily get onto the top of that and would stroll back and forth, seemingly with the express aim of taunting our dog. It worked; the dog would go nuts. Those cats used to crap in our rose bed and I don't think my parents ever got rid of them. Worse still, one fine day my mother decided to scrub my bedroom carpet and left it on the drive to dry. One of those cats peed in the middle of it and despite much more scrubbing I had to live with that smell until it wore off. I have never had the wish to have a cat since then.
The neighbours on the other side of that fence were troublesome too. War was declared when my father caught them dumping garden rubbish in our garden. It hadn't been cultivated for the previous 20 years so was hard enough to tackle without extra from the neighbours. They were an insufferably nosy couple and when they extended their kitchen to look straight into our living room it became a legal war. Planning regulations were gone over with a fine tooth comb and contacts in high places were used, to little avail. My parents ended up building an extension so that the (large) living room window could be placed at 90° to its original position. Prefect privacy at last, as it only looked out on their garden.
As a footnote to that tale, many years later I bumped into the wife on a Sunday lunchtime in my local pub. We got on fine as if there had never been a problem. However, a bunch of my neighbours' wives knew her from coffee mornings they attended, and they warned me against taking up the invite she had given me, as she had a reputation of never leaving them alone (cue the swapping of a few tales ).
The moral of that story is that some neighbours are best avoided, even long after you have moved away.
This happened in the UK. Bad neighbours are most definitely not unique to Switzerland!
tell me more about the Swiss teacher, HAT - this was the previous owner of the place you own now?
The reason being is that I am coming to the conclusion that teachers are utterly crap neighbours - and I am collecting statistics to support this. Both I and one of my superiors in the office have crap neighbours who are teachers.
Anyone else able to add weight to this?
Judging my neighbor
One of the monks of Scete committed a grave error, and the wisest hermit was called upon to judge him.
The hermit refused, but they insisted so much that in the end he agreed to go. He arrived carrying on his back a bucket with holes in it, out of which poured sand.
- I have come to judge my neighbor - said the hermit to the head of the convent. - My sins are pouring out behind me, like the sand running from this bucket. But since I don’t look back, and pay no attention to my own sins, I was called upon to judge my neighbor!
The monks called a halt to the punishment immediately.
(Taken from the Paulo Coelho website)
Hat I think one of the biggest problems facing you in this dispute with your neighbors is the language barrier and your readiness to read negative connotations into your exchanges with him. It comes across in your posts that your expecting the worse from the "Swiss" anyway.
The women next door may know her son is a bit of a bully with younger kids therefore that could be the reason she says it's dangerous for your three year old to play with him. Accept her decision at face value after all, it is her garden.
It can become a habit to think the worse especially if thats what your expecting.
It shows in your statement "I offered him free beer and free chicken" where I'm at, it's called hospitality.
Stop looking for signs that other neighbors might have problems with them too. The hedge from the other neighbor is probably just for privacy and the fence, added security so that the "big dog" doesn't dig through the hedge. Who wants a big dog roaming the streets or chasing cats through their gardens? Certainly not you, with two little ones.
Do yourself a favor and start with your own attitude, you've got more chance of changing that, than that of your neighbors.
Good luck Hat, I hope you can find some balance and harmony.
Sorry. I was wrong.
I agree with you.
If I can, I will take back the "swiss" label.
Allow me to change it to "That family who happened to be swiss".
Really, I mean it.
HAT
PS: Retelling my stories to my TOTALL SWISS colleagues, they also shared some horror neighbour stories about their SWISS neighours.
Therefore I can confirm with you guys all, it is not limited to treatment of swiss against non-swiss.
Swiss does these things to swiss also.
Does that help?
Hi Oldhand,
You know something, I KNOW you are right.
And it is before you even wrote it here.
It is this thing called unfair prejudice .
Not all swiss are like these, and I do think it is a cultural difference thingy.
I am also quick to form mental models, but being mental models as they are, they are hard to break.
I began the thread to vent my frustrations and sometimes it is due to "loneliness" in this (again) private Swiss society. Back home, people are more vocal, open, but nevertheless "dangerous" as well.
I am unable to break this habit of telling "swiss" bad stories or label them as such. I can begin another hate thread by "the american family" or "those british" ...
But I won't.
My original intention is to vent frustration, and I reached this goal .
Some enticing comments from other members here, tempted me back into criticising "swiss behavior". I am most aware of some ugly swiss characteristics. I did not say they are right or they are wrong. They are just like that. Since I live here, I have to accept them.
(Please read carefully my lines, I am practising legal writing style and I am pretty sure I did not comment an opinion, but state only factual events. Although I stray sometimes... )
I can also say, some non-swiss also have the SAME ugly behaviour.| (now that is an opinion about something)
One last word, when someone damages your property, it is totally OK to feel angry. Or not?
I had to laugh when someone suggested (although in best intentions) that I go over with a free beer and "make up" with the offender. It may work, but it is beyond my style and patience.
I just don't see the policeman who pulled me over for speeding, giving me a free beer while discussing why I was speeding. Does that work in other countries?
IRONY IS: I did that already (1 year back), against my pride and better judgement.
If I damaged someone's property, the polite thing for me to do, is to go over, say sorry and promise to remedy the damage.
This, I did not see.
Many people, swiss and non-swiss, will sweep things under the carpet. sigh. (Correct, people?)
Unfortunately, some people here also ask me to go over and voice my unhappiness. This is a no-no, in this society, where confrontations are avoided. Even social contact is avoided, let alone confrontation.
12 months ago, I did and see what I got? Angry rebuttals.
So, thanks again for your analysis and encouragement .
HAT
PS: I am actually a "good guy" I wish to think. However my writing skills and tardy words have landed me in hot soup in more than 1 forum. You can ask Lob or Dave...they know.
Why don't you build a wall and replant the trees next to it? (Yours will be higher than his).
Or don't replant entirely and use part of the wall to hit tennis balls against ... a fun and useful solution.
I hate to correct you Lob....
Not all teachers are crap neighbours. (and not all swiss are ugly, only some)
My teacher-neighbours (old 50s married couple), basically leave us alone in the 12 months we were living "under" them. They talk to us politely when they meet us.
Now, who gave you this myopic view of such-and-such labelling of people? Me? Who?
HAT
PS: I know a SWISS teacher as a friend. He is the only one who volunteered to help me fix a sonnenstorren (sun screen) when no one else would/could. He even gave me his roof-rack to go and buy the thing from Obi. He said to call him anytime (he lives 1 hour away) to come with his power drill and tools. The other "better friend" who lives 3 mins away kept very quiet.
Swiss or non-swiss, you can really get under their hood, if and only if you are their friend.
Same thing with neighbours.
To all skeptics out there with regards to this thread, my neighbour (and perhaps me) are not ready to be "friends". I think I did more than I could already.
PPS: I will still smile, say hello, and pretend nothing serious has happened.
Tolerance...they call it here.
I call it falsehood.
Yep, and I was just searching for Tincrowdor's post about bad neighbours in the UK, with the subject of teachers in mind, when your post popped up.
That neighbour of my parents was a teacher. I also used to wonder about my own parents' knack for getting into scraps with neighbours. Hmm, my mum was a teacher; do we have a theme here?
The last house I bought in the UK was something of a dream come true, two old cottages knocked into one, on the edge of the moors. It was beautifully peaceful until the neighbour from hell bought the house next door. He was a teacher (and his wife a social worker what a combination ).
Not only was he hammering and drilling evenings and weekends, but when I started working from home I discovered that he took copious amounts of time off during working hours to do more of the same as well. This was during the recession of the early 90s when paying work was hard enough to come by as it was, so this rankled even more. Far too many times I would end up jacking work in early and going out to find some peace and quiet.
Then there was the status thing. He'd regularly leave the rear door of his car open showing off his toolbox, even when he was working out at the back.
I had always promised myself that having got that spot, I'd hang on to it, renting it out if work took me far enough away, but yes, it was really that bad. In the end I couldn't stand it any more and sold up.
I honestly believe that having suffered that has left me less tolerant of noise levels, probably for the rest of my life. Like I said before, crap neighbours aren't unique to Switzerland.
Back to the subject of teachers, a Swiss friend who is a teacher was telling me that he refuses to socialise with his colleagues during lunch and coffee breaks because he finds the atmosphere way too bitchy. Having heard my own mother over the years I can see what he means. Is this one of the things that affects their relationships with neighbours I wonder?
HAT,
most often than not, we influence greatly the behaviour of others, without noticing.
Please take what follows gently because is said with the purpose to help not to criticise.
We played tennis once, and 2 things impressed me about you.
Let me say first that I appreciate that you came and play with us coming from far away and I am very open and tolerant with anyone who comes and make the tennis event good for all. I had a general good perception about you.
Now the "little" but significative things.
1st. You were hitting the ball with excesive force. not only when serving, but also sometimes when you had already won the point, you hit it real hard unnecessarily. I saw one other player that was even displaying with her body language that she was scared to be on the receiving side when you were serving or playing, but you kept doing it anyway. I joked a bit about, ( this is my way to indirectly tell you that you are doing something you'd better not ), but you just kept doing it.
Little thing yes, but unconciously this tells me "This guy is aggresive" and "This guy doesn't think about the others".
2nd. For next week event, you posted "I won't come, but it's not what you are thinking ". Then you edited it and deleted that phrase.
I wasn't thinking anything, you are perfectly free to come or not, but your pre-emptive excuse unconsciously told me "He didn't liked us and/or considers us not worthy of him".
I wouldn't have thought that if it wasn't by your phrasing and maybe the way you behaved the first time.
Now analyse this.
In your mind you were just doing nothing wrong. Maybe you can stretch this reasoning and conclude that you effectively were doing nothing wrong. But your attitudes and phrasing made me perceive wrong things about you.
And also consider that I don't know you more than the 2 hours we spent playing.
If I was then a prejudged man, I'd then think you are agressive and unconsiderate and wouldn't wish that you come back, as you don't like us anyway, or in the case you come back I'd be with a defensive attitude towards you, knowing that you hit the ball so hard and don't care if the others are afraid to be hit by it.
In fact and to make it clear I am not prejudged, so I am just saying that as an analysis, it is not true and don't take it personally, you are welcome anytime
But, This is the way our unconscious minds work, little signals make us do pattern-matching and form prejudiced conclusions.
That is, my mind would find an earlier bad experience with another man with similar traits and I'd match this last experience with you and then deduct that you are like that other guy.
Even more, if I had a bad experience in the past with some asian guy, my unconcious mind would conclude. "Yes asians/foreigners are all like this" and would attribute you all the bad characteristics that my mind has formed about them.
Now think about your experiences.
Your are having the same experiences with different people. They are reacting to them on a similar way. You draw the same conclusions.
It is maybe 3 things here.
1. You could have a prejudice against neighbors and swiss people, and as you are defensive about them you pre-emptively act upon them, trying to be friendly etc, but they can perceive this is not the case. ( Just like the excuse for saying no )
2. You could be overreacting or being unnecesarily aggresive/strong/or other attitude, without noticing. And this attitude is then perceived by your neighbors who could form themselves a prejudice against you and match it with their earlier bad experiences with other foreigners. ( like you hitting the ball too hard and not noticing that this perturbs somebody )
3. You are maybe not communicating with them on the same level and then both are defensive and then a tense situation forms
Let me tell you, I had bad experiences with neighbors and swiss people in the past and reacted just like you. forming me a prejudice against the swiss and blaming them for being X,Y and Z and getting more defensive and aggressive towards them the next time.
But then after I realised that this doesn't work. That you have to be open, understanding and communicate better, put yourself on the other guy's shoes and find a good solution for both.
I can tell you that now I don't have any more problems with the neighbors, I now have good relationships with my neighbors next door and many others in the building.
I am sorry you think this way.
With the very finger you pointed at me, you may like to reflect it on yourself.
Playing tennis is my hobby. I play aggressively, not to impress but to get out some "sports" and exercise.
I could not come because I "sprained" a muscle in my deltoids (I play more than once in a week). I was afraid you and other will misunderstand I was unwilling to play with beginners (most of you are), therefore the comment.
I am currently seeing my therapist 2 times a week.
If you are unaffected by this comment, why mention it again?
Your article, in all your best intentions, effectively told me to "**** off" and go screw yourself with your aggressive tennis. Thanks. This may be better for all.
In return, I can say this, I was onto your turf, you began also to serve aggressively and unsuccessfully. You also chose to highlight my aggression (yes I was testing waters), but you seem to ignore that I toned down in the second 30mins, even playing mildly to the girls, and even joking about it. I chose to practise service by myself, so that the 4 of you can play more at your own pace. I was not SHOWING OFF. There is no need to.
I have played tennis for many years. (pls...i am not showing off), but I can say something about improving. It is always good to play against an aggressive and better player, so that one can improve. If I play "basic slow" tennis with you, is this better for you? In my experience, I prefer to play harder players.
And funnily, you take this example to explain why my neighbours burnt my hedges?
How does that relate? Characteristics? Can you then predict what color is my underwear? Dear guru?
Your response and judgemental article tells me something, stay online, but don't turn up.
No matter what you say, is going to improve my opinion of you, now. Sorry, your article is really not needed by me. You could have PM me instead.
Of course, you want to tell the world what a "*******" tennis player I was?
Thanks for organising. I sincerely wish you good playing. I love tennis. I know how difficult to get people of same level to play. I was willing to play down, sorry but you effectively drove me away.
Enjoy your lion's den.
HAT
I understand territorial animal instincts, dear.
For the other 3 people during which I met for tennis, Sorry it turned out this way. You must be careful what you write here, and what you say, cos Lion King will be watching and analysiing...
I don't think posting level of personal analysis of someone is a good thing. Especially when you have met them once. It's one thing giving your opinion of someone face to face, it's quite another posting quite damning assessments, even as opinion, for an archive.
It may be a bit more reasonable to restrict your comments to those based what the person has posted on the forum.
Remember there are plenty of people that could assasinate your character in a heartbeat.
You may want to rethink your post.
dave
See how you react badly to comments that only wanted to help you ?
I am not complaining about your play or judging your abilities or whatever else.
I am just using this as an example so you see how things you believe are in some way, can be perceived and interpreted in another way by other people.
If I was judgemental and prejudged I'd react in a bad way. But I am not, I have no reaction to that. I was only using it as an example so you could see.
I am now simply witnessing how you react.
That's it.
Ouch.. the opening line of your rebuttal pretty much verifies the point he was trying to make.
They didn't want to help him. I read them as patronising and insulting in the extreme. The reaction of HAT in these circumstances is hardly surprising.
You are leaving yourself wide open to others (not me as we have never met) making observations about the real salsalover based on a couple of meetings. Probably not wise, but it's your call.
dave
I smell a flame war smoldering and I'm not talking about the hedge.. might be a good time to close this thread before it ignites..