It is also not a downhill bike, its a long travel trail bike, and hopefully one of them will be in my possesion for next season.
No way you can get that exact bike for 2000CHF. It is only been available for the last three months and is a niche brand that only a few shops in CH carry. No one will discount it to a level where a complete bike will be sold for less then the cost of the frame alone.
Salsa, i can't believe out of all the fullies you could have picked, you picked the Intense Uzzi. Or am i missing something here Eire, or are you and Salsa best drinking buddies.
Very soon that will be a thing of the past for me, well on at least one bike anyway thank you Mr Ghetto.
I think he is stalking me. I had to do a double take when I saw he had posted the exact bike I want to get as a big bike!
I think they are actually dating each other (we recently came to know Eire's gender from that Pharmstrong thread, right ), just picture the two sitting together, red wine in hand and a candle burning slowly
Seriously, Salsa, IMO no one can beat you when it comes to intimate knowledge of high end bikes and technology.
But this thread is about bike usage, basic fitting and riding a bike safely, a point that has been repeated many times earlier. What is happening is, we now have to sift through several pages of irrelavant stuff to get what we want.
My suggestion is, certainly you have a lot of insight into bike technology, why don't you post another thread and put your skills to better use there?
Just a suggestion, and not to extend dialogue and hijack further
I've been doing this for a while already... new frames with new parts... go figure
Eire, Eire,
how many times I have to stalk you online and tell you that it is not about the equipment but about the legs , no need to splurge on gear, blah, blah, blah...
You will be perfectly ok with an M-Budget bike with a compact crankset,
that sounds familiar but the other way around amirite ?
I can read Eire's mind as an open book...
He on the other hand has never had the slightlest grasp on mine
Ok get your Migros budget bike and come on one of the rides I do. You have absolutely no idea what kind of demands I have out of a mountain bike, and I guarantee you that even if I have two mountain bikes they will do more kilometers in one season then you will on all of your road bikes.
The difference between you and me Salsa, I use my bikes as they were intended, I don't just look at them and think they are pretty.
not to stir more the pot, but a road bike was not intended to be used on compacts and triples or mountain cassettes.
That is what touring bikes are for.
See Eire, this is what I think, ( and this is not to get personal again and to the "I'm stronger than you" juvenile thing )
A road bike is a sports tool, it was designed and intended to be ride on a "standard" ( read again this word... standard ) crankset and a standard cassette block, ranging from 11-21 for TTs to 12-27 for climbing.
People have different skills and levels, but all come down to this.
If you attempt to ride, race or climb a paricular hill or pass, and you find that you can't do it, then there are 2 only options.
Or you train and get stronger so you can do it, or you pick a less demanding ride, group of riders or climb.
I think you have the right to downgrade your bike to make the task easy, put a compact, a triple a mountain block.
But then your bike is not anymore a road bike, It is a touring bike.
What you are doing is power-touring. And I applaud you to do so, I wish you enjoy it at its full extent. In the same way I enjoy my shorter and less steep rides.
But don't come here saying you are right and I am wrong, because you are not.
You insist here in puting down my opinions, because you say you can ride better than me and I can keep up with you and hence you "disqualify" me.
But you are fundamentally wrong.
For once, we can't compare because we are in different age and fitness levels, you should compare with guys your age, that would be strong enough to do it in the right and intended way.
Look at the cycling forums for example, there are many advocates of what you do and you know what ? most of them are guys on their 50s.
The guys on their 20s and early 30s are on the road on standards and racing, not downgrading until they reach the late 40s.
When I bought my first full carbon bike I was 30 and I went to Vifian cycles at Geneva.
He is an ex-pro, that won pro-level races and he was 56 at that time and his two sons are club riders competing.
I bought a Trek 5500 that had a 53/39 12-23 on it. I asked him if he could swap it over to a triple and put a shorter stem on it.
His answer was. "You are a young man, do it on this standard, you will only need a triple when you are my age and want still to do the mountain"
And when I came back to get a shorter stem or some I could flip up his answer was. "You'd look like the postman on his puch, keep the stem down and MTFU"
And Eire, I followed his advice and I still believe he was absolutely right, and his opinion is much more valuable.
So, I hope this long winded post is not taken out of context and taken it personal again by you.
You are happy doing power-touring, great, I wish you well, but don't advice young people to downgrade.
If you downgrade at your 30s, then when you are 50 you'll not have even the power hike and to push the bike up the hill.
If that is the case Salsa.
Why then do the pros use compact cranksets on certain climbs? Even many of the top climbers have been known to have a 34/27 combo on for some of the HC climbs.
If someone who can put out 450Watts at threshold, and only weighs 62kg uses a compact then there is no shame for someone who puts out 250W at a weight of 70kg to use one. A compact is simply a tool for the job. Not many people are going to get stronger to the point of having a power output of 400+Watts by training.
I have seen most of the posts you speak about on the cycling forums, and your observation is plain incorrect. The people who live in hilly areas tend to use compacts and triples. The people who talk about age and only needing a compact when you get live in flat areas and only need to get up a short climb occasionaly. If you ride in the alps and have a lot of climbs then it is not "downgrading" your bike to put a compact on it. It is adapting your bike to the conditions. If the professionals do it then why is it downgrading for us mere recreational riders to do it?
All you are doing by posting tripe like your last post is proving that you believe what you want to believe from your cycling forums and have no understanding of what the real requirements of a recreational rider are. Furthermore, your posts about using a standard and getting stronger show that you have no clue about training adaptations and related overtraining and injury risk. If people are to follow your advice at best they will just not enjoy cycling, at worst will be heading towards a serious chronic injury.
You also talk about getting the people cheating or being somehow less athletic to get up a climb with a compact or a higher range block. The thing is to get up a given gradient in a given time for a given person will require a certain power output. To do it in the same time under all the same conditions the power output required will be the same if the person uses a compact or a standard or a triple. What will change is their cadence. It is far better to ride up with a cadence of 70-80 on a compact then it is to ride with a cadence of 50 or less on a standard.
Salsa... you use the word power in your posts... but the way you talk about Power and not being able to get up a climb in my 50's because I use a compact in my 30's really tells me that you do not know what power is. You really do have a Walter Mitty complex.
Fair enough, I have been wanting to point out this myself. Actually things become more interesting if there is a debate, rather than reading one off internet articles...
Both of you have areas of expertise, it would be more useful for EF if both of you continue to debate at an impersonal level. So, Salsa, what you are claiming here is, the vast majority of EF riders (that includes mountain goats who do 4 passes in a day and want to do more ) are all somewhat impure road racing cyclists? I mean, just because a vast majority thinks one way doesn't make it the truth, I am listening. Do you have any other evidence than the bike shop guy you spke to 10-20 years back?
Although some of Salsa's post are so funny (e.g. smelling like a baby) it is hard to resist pulling his leg once in a while
Geez, the rest may be fine, but even an amateur can make out this one is plain wrong. I don't even know if you are saying this seriously.
What I thought was, one must use a gear that allows him to ride at a safe cadence of 80+ rpm. Sure, as one ages, his power may reduce, he may need still smaller gears to sustain his ever declining road speed and still keep up 80+ cadence.
But what has using suitable gears in the youth got to do with age-related weakening? If anything, straining on standards may cause premature wear and hasten the age related decline for majority of non-pros
Name and post proof of a pro on a compact other than Tyler Hamilton when he needed one because he broke a collar bone and couldn't climb off the saddle at the 2003 tour.
And he was on a 52/36 BTW
if you think the 6 or 7 EF riders who do so are the vast majority of cyclists then you don't have an idea...
Young and competitive riders don't need crutches to ride. The ones who do se are here trying to justify their choices.
My thought are, just do it and enjoy it, but don't justify it. Take the truth the way it is.
You are truly full of it.
Edit:
PS For those who think a few of us are harsh or "pick on" Salsa_Lover, I'll be clear, he has some rather odd opinions and narrow knowledge of bicycling. Some of us have ridden with him and his real world performance is far from what you would expect from his written words. People who are new to cycling and asking basic advice are unlikely to detect the subjective content and near falsehoods he posts. Rather than countering each ridiculous post (and the last was biggest steaming pile I've seen since my last visit to the Elephant enclosure at the Zoo), I just want to warn the less experienced from taking his posts as fact.
Many pros use compacts, the last year mountain time trail in giro I clearly saw many riders with compacts and huge sprockets on the back..Infact if I remember it was Roberto herras who even used a triple in one of the road stages of Vuelta some years back ( was it on aingrilu?) and he blasted the stage.
Personally and sadly I think you have never climbed a mountain pass so you might as well conceive of pushing a time trail bike up the mortirolo or gavia pass but my friend the reality is far different than that.
Nobody is saying is easy or that you can't use your triple.
I am saying that this is not road cycling, it is touring, power touring if you wish.
If that is your thing, great do it and enjoy it.
Just don't come here telling the people that is the right way to do it.
There is a right way for each person on his level and age group.
and in my book a 20-30 yo guy should be doing it right, or don't pose here as an strong ( or at least as an stronger as Salsa Lover ) cyclist.
Basso used one already in the 2002 tour de France, there have been many instances of domestiques using them on HC climbs in all grand tours. (I think, but am not 100% sure that Lance used them to maintain his high cadence on some stages too).
The most notable recently was Stage 16 of the 2008 Giro when almost the entire race used them. I'm pretty sure that they were used in this years Giro too.
Your posts display your total lack of knowledge to the people who ride regularly. It is disgraceful to think that some people new to the sport might come accross your advice through google and actually believe some of the rubbish you post. If you really believe what you are writing then you are totally dillusional.
As someone who perfectly fits that description I had been following this thread with interest, but have now decided to give up as I'm tired of reading all the bitching and oneupmanship. Why can't you all just take the insults to PM?