Niche Cycling

Sports and Hobbies
1
Now take the TT bike

The Cervelo P3 was the breakthrough, truly designed for speed. tested and optimized on the windtunnel.

Not that pretty, but it was function over form

Now made illegal with the UCI 3x1 regulations applied for 09. they'll have to redesign it to make it less aero

Some followers made a similar bike that is as or better aero and much more beautifil like the Pinarello Montello

this is the best looking TT bike around and as Aero ( or better ) as the Cervelo

And the Ridley Dean who took the concept further.

They bough the rights to use the Oval Designs Jetstream Aero Fork and made it more aero and matching the Dean a perfection

I find the seat tube somewhat ugly but the bike is right now the pinacle of innovation in this field IMHO

Specialized on the other hand made the Transition TT bike that not only is ugly but it is indeed not as aero as it looks like, it was dismissed by the pros ( Cancellara and many others ) so Specialized had to work on an even uglier prototype ( but not as ugly as the Felt anyway ) that could be a good thing when released

here you see the resume of many weak points this specialized design has

2
All these bike innovations look good but are more art or advertisements than anything else. Same two triangles with one cable inside or outside, grossly oversold as innovation. Its the legs which matter at the end of the day.

Having that said if I had the dough I wouldn't mind spending some clicks on them .

3
As a management researcher, with colleagues whose profession it is to help marketers con consumers, I couldn't agree more. The story is even more telling in other sports like running, which have even less scope for technical sophistry but yet has spawned a whole indusrty and cult around the brands...

Well, I do buy some branded running shoes/apparel now, the rational part of my mind knows it is a placebo, but hey, when people spend so much more on designer wear and cosmetics which have no real functional value, why not a few grand on carbon bikes and specialist running shoes Atleast it works as a strong motivator for some people.

4
Yeah, I was going to ask where you buy some legs to match those bikes

5
funny how guys on their 20s who have never ridden one of those ( and who need triples and compacts to climb ) are the only ones dismissing them, calling the old legs vs money argument.

6
20s? Or even 30s, I wish

7
When I first started skiing I went for a day's ski with my Swiss brother-in-law.

He apologised in advance as he had missed skiing the previous season due to having an operation which prevented him skiing. He showed me his 'new' skis. He said he was walking home one night and spotted them in a skip down his road. They looked better than the ones he had, so he took them.

That day he had forgotten his ski boots, but borrowed his son's which were too tight and required some fiddling to fit them to the ex-skip skis.

So, there we stood at the top of a steep slope, me with all the latest gear, my brother-in-law in an ill-fitting jacket, jeans, someone else's ill-fitting boots and skis from a skip. Off he went - perfect tight turns, leaning in using the edges - fast and competent. I had my work cut out just keeping up with him, never mind emulating his style,

My point? Equipment, whether skis or bikes, will only buy you so much. Skill, strength, experience and fitness (also known as legs) win in the end...

1 Like
8
Thanks for advice. Actually the problem was, as adviced by a bike-shop mechanic, too fast toggling of the lever. If I hold it a fraction of a second longer the gears will change smoothly. No more problem there.

9
Your point is perfectly valid.

But my point, is that your Brother-in-law with the skills he has, would perform even better in good and well fitting equipment.

And being him swiss in addition, and as well as I know the swiss, I sincerely doubt he would dissmiss the good quality things with tangential arguments.

The only ones who dismiss good things with tangential arguments are the ones who can't have them.

The Fox and the sour grapes fable comes to mind...

10
Thats bull. I could have a shiny top of the range bianchi as my road bike if I wanted. I choose not to though. The bike I have serves my purpose perfectly well and by spending another x thousand francs on the bike its not going to make me a better rider and its also not going to change how much I enjoy my bike.

I see so many people spend a fortune on sports equipment designed for pros and can't get get the full potential out of the equipment. They would be much better off with less extreme equipment that they can actually use to a larger percentage of its potential. Just because something is good for a professional at a sport it does not mean that an amateur can get the use out of it. Your time trial bikes are a perfect example, they are just not nice to ride for the vast majority of people.

11
That may be the "correct" answer, if every consumer thinks as rationally as you.

But fact is, there are numerous people for whom spending money gives a smug satisfaction, and brands and technical features give a high. It motivates them to do things they would otherwise not do.

For example, when there are such beautiful trails out there, why do some people insist on running on treadmills indoors? Why do people feel empowered when they wear Nike t-shirts, when a 2 chf vest would be functionally almost identical?

Much as I hate Nike, I grudgingly admit that they have actually motivated a section of people to get off their couches and popularized running.

Perhaps Salsa is attempting something like that here, I don't know...But agree a word of caution is in place. An excellent race bike can actually end up hurting a rider who is not fit enough to use it.

12
Slightly unfair reaction to Salsa's efforts to paint some of the history of the development of bikes. I certainly appreciated it.

Since the thread seems to have taken a judgmental and slightly unpleasant turn - my background is that I've never owned a bike that cost me more than 250 euros despite commuting by bike almost daily for 3/4 of my life. My last new bike was a Lidl special - 110 euro - about the only thing which would survive tied to a pole in Dublin. When the inevitable happened and it was kicked to death when I left it parked overnight, I bought a 2nd hand cobbled together steel tourer. My few outings since I came here have been on clunking mountain bikes rented from Zurich HB. If I jog I use 4 year old cheap Asics and I never saw the need to pay for gym membership. I'm the sort who will blow 100 euro on a night out drinking but will spend five minutes working out whether one tin of beans is better value by weight in a supermarket.

I am planning on eventually commuting (60km round trip) daily on the bike I buy and for once - even thought it goes against the grain - I am going to get something NICE for myself that I will truly enjoy on a daily basis. So 2.5k is a lot for a bike; if it was a car it would be considered cheap and yet I will get far more utility out of it.

So, more bike p0rn please, Salsa!

13
There is a history behind a lot of the drivel that Salsa posts. No one here would begrudge you buying yourself a nice bike. In fact we would all highly encourage you. What Salsa does is tout himself as an expert, he has many bikes that have a very high value (considerably higher then the 2500CHF that you mention) and when it comes to riding them.... Well he just doesn't have the legs as he says himself. Now this is not a knock at people who are unfit.... but it is pointing out the fact that having a bike worth 10,000CHF does not make you a cyclist. In my book a cyclist is someone who goes out there and rides their bike with no big fanfare, it doesn't matter if that bike is a 100CHF Migros budget bike or a 10,000CHF Bianchi. The truth of the matter is something middle of the road is much better for the vast majority of people and I am very sure you will find something that makes you very happy for about 2500CHF which you mention as your budget. I managed to pick up a nice road bike from Chain Reaction Cycles last year for 1500CHF and so far it has served me very well. It does 't have some Italian designer name on it, and its not a bike that Lance would have used in the tour, but it has served me very well has done many 100+km days and lots of climbing. I know Niranjan has a similar experience and has joined us for a 100km+ 3000m climbing day in June on a perfectly nice bike which he got for a good deal... It just does not say "Bianchi" on the side.

14
On a previous post I cited how the innovation in CX bikes by Bianchi from Italy was followed by Ridley from Belgium taking the approach to a next level.

When I posted about the TT bikes I forgot to mention also from where came the inspiration for this masterpiece

The only TT bike with a reverse/sloping top tube you say ?

not really

Bianchi started this trend all on the 70s

Looks very uncomfortable isn't it ?

Well it is all about getting the rider on the most aero efficient position possible and the low head tube helps to do so.

The same concept was applied during the late 80's on composite materials

this one won the world championships

This shape was made illegal by the UCI that requires that the bike has the diamond ( 2 triangles ) shape.

So it was back to that shape and the use of Alloys during the 90's that make them not that interesting,

like this prototype in Alu and with disk brakes ( tell me about who were the innovators ? Colnago comes to mind too but they deserve a full other post)

Until the new Bianchi D2 TT concept bike on the mid 2000's

This is an sculpted monocoque frame, that actually helps the air to flow smoothly around it, and still with a reverse sloping top tube.

Looks kinda weird, somewhat ugly, but it is indeed aero efficient, and uses the Oval concepts Jetstream fork, a fork that gives an proven aero advantage.

here another better pic, by Johnatan from turbocharged bikes, a fellow bike lover and hobby builder... he specializes on TT bikes

See now the Cervelo P3C this was the latest breakthrough on the TT bike design, they did a frame that molds around the rear wheel and is profiled on a very efficient aero shape. function over form, plain ( not ugly, not beautiful )

It became soon the reference and the approach was copied by almost all bike builders.

Ridley didn't just copied the P3C, what they did is to take the two most innovative approaches to the TT bike, that is, the Bianchi D2 concept and the Cervelo P3C and merged both into this masterpiece

This has the top tube and the air flow approach of the Bianchi ( actually they bought the license from Oval to be able to mold the fork to the bike and not just to have it as an addon ) and also incorporated the concept on the rear seat stays. and also has the profiled and smooth aproach of Cervelo. Additionaly the paint has an special surface that traps the air and this create an "air layer" over the paint, so you'll have the air going over a thin layer of air and not the bike surface itself, smoothing the air flow. A complete revolutionary concept that has been prooven effective on the wind tunnel.

Some detail pictures.

The seat tube is also molded in a way it helps the dirty air flow ( comes clean from the front but is messed up by your moving legs ) to go smooth through the clean rear wheel ( has to be a disk wheel ) and the seat stays with R-Flow.

Similar ideas even though not as advanced but indeed beautiful you can find on the Pinarello Montello

As you maybe have guessed by now, I love TT bikes, those are the equivalent of a Formula 1 Ferrari, not for your everyday commute, or for your leasure drive, but to enjoy on a special day.

I sold my own TT bike at the beginning of the season and now I have my heart set on one of these 2.

A TT bike p0rn post wouldn't be complete without mentioning briefly ( because they deserve a complete article about ) the Look time trial bikes.

I'll just post 2 of them ( thanks Jonathan )

the 486

and the 596

funny how they have names of microprocessors , they are all high tech.

French Look bikes go to my head, Italian Bianchis and Pinarellos go to my heart. and the Belgian Ridleys go to both.

what more can a man ask ?

15
^^^ Bike Pörn.

16
Since the thread title is about Practical questions and answers.... WTF do two longwinded posts on Time trial bikes have to do with practical cycling for the average biker? Time trial bikes are very specialised pieces of kit and not nice for the average person to ride. I was told that you even admitted to others that you had trouble riding the one you had. If you want to post your bike **** then make a seperate thread for it. Here it is diluting the answers to PRACTICAL questions that some people need to ask.

If someone is looking for information on a road bike to ride in the Alps posting reams and reams of pictures of Time trial bikes does not answer the question.

17
Yeh the ugly or fugly bike thread.

18
Do you mean something fugly like this ?

19
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I don't recall anyone pointlessly posting multiple images of long travel mountain bikes. Which are a niche bike, though maybe less than time trial bikes

20
This is very much or precisely the same downhill bike which I had a chance to buy second hand for 2000 chuffs from Wettingen Velo Scherer. I tried to ride it on the road but it was not near close to what I needed at that time for commuting. I just like its offroad profile and definitely I would have enjoyed it, if I were a fan of MTB. Nice pics