Nightmare during move-in

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
Hello, I would like to ask for some advice regarding my bizarre station.

I rented a property from agency Livit in Zurich. They discussed contract and costs in English with no issue. On the handover day, agent, previous tenant and myself were present. The agent stated that she preferred to go through the rooms alone and that I could make comments later and also send additional comments in the following two weeks.

However, already during the handover, it was noticed that walls and ceiling had significant cracks as well as windows. And that they needed to be painted. I asked and was told that painting would take only a few hours and that I could safely sleep in the apartment the same night. However, when 4 days later painters came, they had to cover all the objects, furniture, and stated that they would need two days to finish work and that it would be best if I didn't sleep in the room where wooden surfaces were painted (studio apartment so no more rooms available other than kitchen and bathroom) the same night. So I found alternative accommodation.

The same week, I noticed that fridge was full of ice and dirt, remains of food from the previous tenant, extremely dirty windows (with dead bugs inside), dirty toilet, absence of light in kitchen (the whole system, not just bulbs), missing trashcan... All the things not checked by the agent. To anyone I showed photos of the flat, this seemed shocking.

To my emails, agent requested 7 service providers to contact me. Following, I asked for reduction in first month of rent and compensation for the days required to bring apartment to optimal state. I also requested full cleaning to be performed.

The agency rejected all of this. I asked to speak to superiors. I was offered to speak to one but only if I provided a translator as she spoke only German. Suddenly, all the communication with the agency switched to German and they rejected replying in English. They also rejected any phone contact.

Then I made a video documenting all the issues in the apartment. I sent the video requesting for acknowledgment of mistakes on their end and reimbursement. I stated that I was extremely unhappy with their service. I also stated that I would not hesitate to seek legal protection and share my experience with the agency publicly.

To this, they replied that I violated their data by registering video (where i mentioned the name of the agent in charge of handover) and that they will prosecute me for "threats" (Drohung, Nötigung).

Has anyone ever experienced something like this?

Never in a million years would have I imagined something like this could happen in any western country.

I am considering reporting them for harassment and intimidation. But as i don't have legal insurance (my bad) I am not sure if there is anyone I could ask for assistance...

Any tips are welcome.

Thank you for your support.

2
THAT was a great mistake as it is illegal and they are right, it is Drohung/Nötigung. Did you publish that video you made?

On the other hand, there is no case of harassment or intimidation in the story.

As to the story: Sounds tough. On the other hand checking a fridge, lights working would be standard checking points and dirty windows should be obvious when seeing the frames have cracks. So I don't know what to think of this all and the best move would be join "Mieterverband".

But stop threatening your landlord, that could become very expensive.

3
Of all the scammy, low-grade swiss property agents I had to deal with, Livit were the worst.

Washing machine flooded the bathroom the first time I ran it. I spent evening mopping up the mess. No apology, no rent reduction.

Building work resulted in visible dust layer all over apartment and contents. Books in estrich ruined. All they did was send a cleaner.

Heating system clicked loudly, made it impossible to sleep. They did not fix, no rent reduction.

Intercom broken. Took many visits to fix.

Agent raised water stain in Estrich as issue on hand-back. It was documented in their own photos that this was there at time of handover to me. I even mentioned it at the start, and they were like "oh it's just an Estrich relax man".

All of this in a top-end luxury apartment.

Fault after fault after serious fault, met with intransigence, incompetence, and not a single rappen in rebates. Avoid Livit. They are not human - there is no concept of give-and-take or reasonableness. They could shit on your floor, and the only way to extract a discount would be at the Schlichtungsbehörde, and even then I doubt it.

4

To clarify, is the problem with saying they'll share info about the bad Livit, to try and get their way? Or is the problem with sharing the info about the bad Livit? Cos if the former, then what difference does it make whether they published it? And if the latter, then, wtf?

5
He also names a Livit employee in the video.

And yes that is a big problem.

BTW, Renting my second house also from Livit, 5 yrs in total and I am overly happy with their response time to issues and the solutions and how the handovers have been handled.

6
sorry, but how is is saying that you are going to take legal actions against the agency Drohung/Nötigung? Or amking a video of your own apartment.

In that case, writing this post is also illegal...

7
You said: Which to me sounds as: You made a video of your experience in which you name an employer by name and you stated that if they do not do what you want them to do that you would publish your experience.

If they ever sue you, and you mean other things than what I just said than you better think very good about how your future communication will be.

8
The law sais, threatening somebody to inform the press/Kassensturz/Beobachter etc. if demands are not met is a criminal offense (Nötigung). The point is: Actually informing press/Kassensturz/Beobachter is not = legal! Note the detail.

Writing about it in this forum is basically no problem, unless you mention names of employees or other specific details. 'I rented from Livit' is no problem, 'Mrs. Meier from Livit said/did ....' is. The worst case - if the information spread on this forum is untrue - could be getting sued for Verleumdung/üble Nachrede (slander/defamation) and yes they will recognize the case.

As to your complaint-post further up: How should they know about the washing machine? Are they supposed to bring their underwear to handover and run a wash? (oh, I can see the thread about that one ) <> yep, that's to be expected. "Wo gehobelt wird, fliegen Späne" sais a German saying. Liable: The construction company. Bark up the correct trees if you want a bone. Water stain in Estrich - easy to prove it was already there/taken note of when you took over. Can be tallied as oversight (easily possible if employee changed during rental time). So, all in all, you're not convincing.

I'm not defending Livit, I don't have the slightest clue about how they work as I never dealt with them. But so far it sounds to me as if I would have no problems with them. All a case of proper arguing so far.

9
"Threatening" with taking legal actions is not illegal. Perfectly okay.

Posting a video of your own flat is perfectly legal as well. Mentioning names - or worse pictures - of people who did not agree to it, is not.

Not to mention, if you film an ugly/dirty/wrecked flat you just moved into, the text should be: "Look what a dump I took over, plonker me." No?

However, OP's situation seems muddled and I repeat, contacting "Mieterverband" is probably the best thing, considering OP seems to know nothing about laws here and there has been a lot of (unproductive) bitching going on.

All the best.

10
This is ambiguous - I have no idea what you're trying to communicate here. Perhaps that it's not necessarily legal (depending on details). Perhaps that it's automatically illegal, which, no. No idea.

Bad question. They should take responsibility for it, even if they would not know about it. At the very least this means the human step of saying "sorry about that, and we'll knock such and such off your first month's rent". I would have done this for my tenants had my washing machine for them flooded in such a way on their first day, and they had cleaned up the result. It is obviously the decent thing to do.

No shit! As I said, it was on their own photos, printouts of which all parties (me, them, cleaners) were holding during the handover. They were just trying it on because they can't help it. Vermin. They knew perfectly well it was like that. They are just automatically pricks aiming for maximal tedium for anyone unfortunate to try and deal with them. Because they think it's funny. Shit scam company in shit scam country.

11

It's refreshing to see someone able to recognise and admit their mistakes. Maximum respect going out to you, and let's hope you've learned your lesson.

12

Sorry, can't wallow in your respect. But I could offer a reading class.

Anyway, this is not the rant section but housing in general and you are not the OP. So I will leave you to it.

13
thanks to the night club for replies while I can understand that my message was slighly ambigous, I did not explicetly write: "pay me this or I will publish the video".

anyhow, I removed the video and informed the agency that my request for reimbursment was exclusively linked to my contract and rights guaranteed but the law. The video was previously shared only with them and was private. And of course, the video did not show any people, just dirty windows and similar.

I believe that any visual content of my apartment shared in public is my intellectual property and it is my right to express publicly my opion of the agency regardless of reimbursment. This is at least what is normal in any country.

However, I have to say that generally speaking, people working in property management agencies in Switzerland, from my 3-year-experiance, are the worst sort of people, with the lowest level of education and competence. Anywhere outside CH, they would have difficult time finding any jobs. So, I do not intend to have any compassion nor understanding for them.

14
Contact these people immediately:

https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv-zh.html

If you didn't look them up already, they are what you could call "tenant protection board", it costs little to have a membership and they have lawyers and are usually extremely helpful.

Just that you know, you have a card that you could play. In case a tenant has a serious problem/disagreement with the landlord and the landlord refuses to remedy the problem in a reasonable time, the tenant could withhold the rent from the landlord and pay the rent in a special account administered by the Canton.

However if you take that step you must inform a conciliation board (some office that mediates conflicts between tenants and landlords, sorry not sure what is it called in Zurich),

The landlords/agencies really don't like that step because they basically get no income from you. After you withhold the rent, inform the board, they will sit with you and the landlord and try to solve the issue. If things are not solved, then it could to go court.

I strongly recommend that you don't play that card before at least consult the mieterverband and know the exact procedure in Zurich.

Good luck

15

"Never in a million years would have I imagined something like this could happen in any western country."

Which planet do you live on?

16

Obviously not on the same one as you. Fortunatelly I would say.

A

17
You are an adult and we have to assume you are capable of acting in your own best interests, but seriously...

- What did you do at the apartment viewing?

- What did you do at the apartment handover?

All this stuff seems to have been there right from the get go, so why did you sign up to it?

18
Well you went from a decent OP to being a troll really fast.

Work some on your patience.....

PS: If you are serious, many of those low class individuals do check all those things you mentioned during a handover, so if those low class individuals outsmart you where does that put you?

19
The Swiss German culture is to act by the letter of the law, even if that means acting unethically or screwing someone else over. All one has to do is look at the culture of offshore banking that existed here until the US/EU shut it down. If you want to live here you need to do two things: (i) get legal insurance to cover any unforeseen events, and (ii) start thinking like a lawyer. Always read contracts and always assume that the büenzli you are doing business with knows their rights and will screw you over within the confines of the law. Once you get better at this you can start to play the game to your advantage.

20
So given your 3 years of experience you should have managed your apartment handover without any trouble at all. And yet, here you are.

The fact is that many people attend their handovers without any professional support. Sometimes things goes well, other times not. After the fact it is much more difficult to go to the Mieterverband for assistance.

In many instances you won't know whether the handover went well until it is time to move out.