I understand your frustration Elabrandon and know that this is a really difficult situation. I have a noisy child as well and even though we've usually lived in houses, there were times when he still drove the neighbors mad.
But as some other posters have said, the problem was there before you moved in. For example, I live next to a railway and every few minutes a train passes behind my house, which might drive some people crasy. Since the railway was there before I came along, I can either put up with it or move.
You might argue that at least I knew the train was there whereas you didn't know the child upstairs would be so noisy but moving might still be your only option.
As a last resort, I would try to have a really serious talk with the parents and maybe offer to buy some carpet for them. Might be cheaper than moving.
In any case, I hope you get things sorted out and find some peace and quiet.
Now this sounds like a really good story. I'm all eyes....(not to hijack the thread but maybe start a new one in off -topic, about how pets can make or break a relationship...I know a guy who was dumped as his girlfriend didn't like his dog
Goes back to the transport thread re. kids. If you don't like other people don't go near them. Our neighbours were a bit of a pain at first when Borisette Mk. 1 was teething. I went and explained to them after several rounds of banging on the ceiling and everything's been fine since. We try and keep them a bit quieter in the flat (we stop them fomr running and banging on the florr in the evenings when they're in) and they've also relaxed a bit.
if you're really that fussed by the sound of other people, I hear Antarctica's pretty quiet.
Bad & arrogant ? I totally disagree here, the OP came with a genuine and non trivial issue, seeking advice. We can all have our opinions about what he should do, but calling him bad & arrogant certainly won't help.
I've got a 6 year old and 1 year old who are always chasing each other. The neighbors downstairs are always pounding on the wall. We try to tell the kids to take it easy and not run, but as everyone here allready noted "kids will be kids". And even tho the construction in our building is concrete, somehow we can still hear our neighbors when the cough, sneeze, etc. Yea, what to do "Communal living" wasn't in the brouchour of Switerland, but something you gotta get used to I guess. I'd love to buy my own house and make me and my neighbors happy, but I'm a million CHF or so short
Still, even if the perfectly quiet flat is to be found, Swiss move on average every 2 years, and have 1.5 kids, so if your current neighbors have no kids, the new ones should have 3
We make sure our little nipper has his (soft soled) slippers on when he is in the house because he is also a prolific apartment-jogger. The slippers seem to help, although up to now I have never received any complaints from the people downstairs, I am always sensitive that they don't want to hear thud-thud-thud at 6 am on a Sunday morning.
The parents of this toddler should take you seriously and do something about it. If it was a dog barking or loud music playing to the same extent that this child is running about, I am sure the owners or the landlord would have acted by now.
Next time you speak to them, suggest that slippers might help. Maybe they will finally take the hint.
Not wishing to aggravate any neighbours by kids running around, my wife has always insisted that we get ground-floor apartments with concrete floors.
We've never had any problems with neighbours complaining.
Personally I couldn't bear to think that our child was making neighbours' lives a constant misery by running around.
It sounds like the OP was mislead by the landlord. They do have my sympathy but I think their only solution is to move - to the top floor of a modern concrete apartment, or a detached house.
Going to an old, wooden apartment without children is not the answer - old people can be much noisier and more irritating with their deafness and consequently loud TVs.
Wow! Some incredibly unsympathetic people out there. It sounds to me that you would just like what everybody else would like i.e. peace and quiet in your own home.
Whether the kid was there before you or not is completely irrelevant and if its parents are not considerate enough to keep the noise down for most of the time then the resulting adult is also not going to be very considerate either. Thin end of the wedge.
Maybe you could take a speaker and direct it to the ceiling, as close as you can get and play whatever your favourite music is. Loudly. I tried this once on upstairs neighbours who played their own music so loudly we could feel the vibrations and it worked immediately. You have, afterall, tried the best first option which is speaking to your neighbours.
Also tapinig the noise is a good idea - you could then play this back to your landlord. Keep a diary of times and duration also. This will reinforce your complaint let people see that you are not being unreasonable.
The fact is that it's not always possible to restrain a child without terrorising it and severely harming the qualit of life of such family. Rarely kids are predisposed to behave quitetly, but most of them aren't. Or, even if possible, it requires so much time and energy that it is not practical. If there are more children, it is simply impossible (I call it synergy).
Maybe offering the parents advise on soft slippers could be a cheap solution. However, I know kids which must use orthopedic shoes all the time and those shoes are perfect noise-makers.
It looks like the OP has been (maybe deceively) tricked into renting an unsuitably soundproofed appartment for this mix of tenants.
I have every sympathy with the OP - the noise would drive me mad.
However, it seems that they have had no luck with either the landlord or the parents and for the sake of their own mental health, I suggested that they move out and I gave advice as to the sort of place to which they should move.
Irrespectively of whether you think the parents are behaving well or not (and that's subjective), they obviously think they are; or they don't care.
Chalk it up to experience and move on. And learn !
An ex-fellow tenant related a story to me where he did exactly what you suggested and blasted high volume doses of "Bat out of hell" down to the offending party (who was a 20-something guy who liked playing techno music at maximum blast). Unfortunately the intended party probably had a self-inflicted hearing problem because it didn't make the slightest improvement.
In my own personal experience, the old lady above me blasts her TV on a frequent basis and always after 10pm. I saw fit to write a note to her Son but phrased it in a way that I did not know the origin of the noise. I got a reply that the Mother was feeling bitter about something and always left the TV on max volume and then fell asleep in front of it... it didn't make much difference as she continued to blast her TV well after 11pm. At which point I simply turned up my own TV.
Recently a young Swiss guy moved in next door to the old lady and sometmes I hear his techno music even though I'm downstairs to the right. One Sunday, I had to laugh when the I heard someone (presumably the old lady) thumping a stick on the wall to tell the guy to turn it down
To the OP, you have my sincerest sympathies since it seems you were misled by the Vermieter. I have nothing against energetic children but my home is where I stay for peace and quiet which is why I always make a point of asking when I go apartment hunting.
Here's some advice - why not tell the parents that perhaps they could reduce the amount of time that their child runs up and down the apartment by taking him/her outside to the park a couple of times a day for a good yomp around in the fresh air to expend that extra energy?
They would surely be quieter in the house after this.
Do you really think the parents would listen to this and follow this through? I somehow doubt it.
I really think there is only one answer for you - move.
I agree it seems as thought the OP was somewhat "scammed" into renting the apartment.
As a mom of two kids 1 & 3, I try as much as I can to keep them from making a lot of noise, but with hard floors, it's almost impossible. Kids are going to be kids and jump around like frogs, or attempt to jump from one couch to the next and fall, scream, drop toys and whatever else kids do noisily. They also wake up at 6 AM EVERY morning, whether it's Wednesday or Saturday. That's what they do.
Good luck to the OP in trying to find a solution to peace & quiet, but with children in apartments (and this seems to be the norm in most of switzerland), there's no quick fix.
I was also having very loud children on the neighbouring appartment, but now they have grown up and are not noisy anymore. I sympathise, although it's also not the end of the world.
Found this interesting article (in German, sorry too lazy to translate). More of these on: http://www.laerm.zh.ch/ Relevant excerpt:
" Was üblich und zumutbar ist, wurde in vielen Gerichtsentscheidungen einzeln geklärt, denn eine allgemeine gesetzliche Regelung zum Kinderlärm gibt es ebenso wenig wie etwa maximal zulässige Höchstwerte für das Geschrei kleiner Wildfänge. Zwar schreiben die meisten Hausordnungen eine Mittagsruhezeit von 12.00 Uhr bis 15.00 Uhr und eine Nachtruhezeit von 22.00 Uhr bis 7.00 Uhr morgens vor, die als Bestandteil des Mietvertrages natürlich auch für Familien mit Kindern verbindlich sind . Das heißt, die Eltern sind angehalten, dafür zu sorgen, dass ihre Sprösslinge in dieser Zeit möglichst ruhig sind. Auch außerhalb dieser Zeiten ist nur kindgerechtes Spielen erlaubt; Aktivitäten wie zum Beispiel von Stühlen herunter springen oder Möbel umwerfen müssen die Eltern unterbinden . Doch weil die Kids nicht wie Rasenmäher oder Bohrmaschinen ein Knöpfchen haben, an dem man sie abschalten kann, weil man sie nicht mit Gewalt zwingen kann, mehrere Stunden mucksmäuschenstill mit Buchanschauen zu verbringen, müssen die Nachbarn den üblichen kindgemäßen Lärm wie Lachen, Weinen und Schreien auch während der Ruhezeiten hinnehmen ."
Meaning, parents must at least try, but you have to cut them some slack if they are already trying. If they are not trying at all, then of course, you can bring out the contractual issues. Furthermore, if you were not properly warned by the landlord, you might be elegible for a reduction of your rent (such a request might make your landlord a little more cooperative). Could also give you legal grounds to demand renovations in this old house that would reduce the noise.
" Wenn allerdings eine Wohnung besonders hellhörig und die Mitmieter deshalb oft von Kinderlärm oder Säuglingsgeschrei gestört werden, so kann dies dem nachbarn möglicherweise das Recht geben, die Miete zu mindern . Hierzu ist es manchmal notwendig, in der betreffenden Wohnung Lärmmessungen durchzuführen, oft reichen auch Zeugenaussagen oder die übereinstimmenden Beschwerden mehrerer Mieter, um eine über das annehmbare Maß hinaus gehende Lärmbelästigung festzustellen, die dann vielleicht eine Minderung der Miete rechtfertigt."
I understand and empathise with the original poster -- of course it is disappointing to find a great flat and then discover that you do not feel at home there because of noise.
However, I am also a parent and I know that it is very difficult to prevent children from running around. The law is also on our side because you can not bring a complaint against a crying or otherwise noisy child. There is also no legal obligation for a tenant to carpet their floors and any such request would be rejected by the tribunal.
Let me share my personal experience on this matter: our daughter has always been a really bad sleeper, we only recently finally established that she had obstructive sleep apnea. She would wake up screaming or have night terrors several times every single night. One evening -- it was close to midnight -- someone rang at our door. It was a pair of elderly neighbours living two floors below who came to tell us that they could not tolerate this screaming anymore. They even went as far as hinting that we were doing something to the child.
I can not explain how incredibly demoralising it was, standing at the door and trying to withhold tears as I listened to them and tried to politely explain that we were doing our best. Their lack of empathy was incredible. It was a rare moment when I really did not feel welcome in Switzerland.
So, to draw a parellel with your problem, it is perfectly possible that those parents could not care less about the neighbours. But it is equally possible that they feel bad about the noise their child makes and would minimise it if they could. Asking them to buy their toddler soft slippers or cover their floor perhaps could help -- but then this request has to be done in a very friendly, non-intimidating way. Perhaps over a cup of coffee?