Old versus new apartments

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
It's about the time to secure one's future and invest in "home" however long that will be. Although it might not be a dream house but we decided that buying versus renting prevailed at this point.

Basically, if you were to buy either apartment, free standing house or plot to build one, what year brackets would make sense to consider. If we were looking at pros and cons of all properties on the market I would group them in a nutshell as:

Very old houses - anything like 1800 or older; wooden, mostly requiring lots of renovations, sometimes even worth breaking it down for plot to build new one on it. The only advantage is that they seem to be spacious, affordable at first glance but lots of repairs in the long run. Potential problems with everything. Not really interesting unless you are connoisseur and into refurbishing of old houses. Price range 150k - 250k

Apartments in old buildings - for instance anything between 1967-1995. These seem to be reasonably priced but they might require extra costs of renovations e.g. electric wiring, heating system, plumbing and etc. They are usually not well isolated thermally and accustically. You might need break down the walls to make open plan and modernize them. General perception is that they used to build very solidly in olden days and nowadays developers do not provide same quality of labour being in a hurry. We want to view few of those. Very tempting because of affordability 300k-500k

Modern apartments - something to consider like 2012 - 2015 with open plan living rooms and kitchens. Very nice and they come with guarantee. In process of development you can customize certain features according to your preferences with extra cost. It's something we are looking at and plan to visit few developers within next couple of weeks. Very expensive over 600k.

Our target is something at least 4.5 to 5.5 rooms in Aargau. Regular subscriber to comparis, immobilien and homegate.

It would be interesting to hear your opinion on age of the properties you buy. Would you go for old building or modern building available from next year?

2
Very old house- 1587 but in perfect condition for all the essentials and basics- but lots of potential which we will never realise fully. Love it- a true and lovable home, not an investment. Each to their own- i would not live in a modern box, however comfortable, personally. Lots of space and character, land and more SPACE and excellent value. What Fatmansfilm thinks of it is totally irrelevant to us, lol.

3
I'd secure my future and hence invest in a barrier-free home, with lift, weelchair access and other commodities. If that comes with space, charm, and is affordable then old or new is not the main issue - but each to their own.

4
I chose a new build property based on the principle, I'm here for the long haul. Considered a older property but the renervation costs/estimates were near enough just as costly as choosing a new build, in respect to how you want your house/apartment to work for you and the family. Choosing how you want things done including interior design are key to easy living.

Suppose it really counts on personal choice and what you will be happy with especially if you are going to live in it long term. Whatever you decide it is a rollercoaster of a journey which is enjoyable and frustrating at times but when you are handed the keys you can stop dreaming.

Good luck.

5
Amenities, lift, modernity, charm and etc

What was on our minds before - Location, location, location!

Can easily turn into - Confusion, confusion, confusion!

6
We live in a modern box - terraced apartment. Big rooms, lots of light, no funky corners and loads of space, including storage. Not much character outside. However, one creates character inside. I see the charm of older structures, but we haven't a decent DIY gene between us.

Were we buying a house, I think a modern build - either a top floor or garden apartment. But if you have the time and energy for renovations, an older build can be appealing.

7
I prefer standalone house so as to have no adjoining neighbours.

Building new is expensive, knocking down and building is more expensive, renovating is probably more expensive still and comes with compromises.

8
We're looking at places at the moment too. Currently we're living in a modern build apartment with lots of open space although we do have a lot of sloped ceilings and strange corners.

So we've viewed places from all eras - the super old stuff was interesting but everything creaks, everything sags, you can hear every movement anyone makes in the house.

40's - 70's we haven't seen any. I get asbestos fear with that stuff.

The 70's houses we looked at were all a bit weird - strange 'futuristic' anachronisms which were impractical - stairs with no railings, bathrooms situated between the main floors, electric storage heaters everywhere.

The 80's and 90's houses were better, but didn't let in much light and the rooms tended to be small. They just felt dingy.

So I think all in all we're beginning to learn that we'll probably look for a new build somewhere or even a plot and build something on it. The cost of doing that pushes us to the top end of our budget, meaning we have to compromise to some extent on the location to get lower land prices. It's all a bit of a give and take, and we've been at this casually for 3 years and seriously actively with viewing appointments for about a year.

9
This is a good start

10
My two cents, buyer beware with old houses. Unless you are a super duper electrician, roofer, plumber and carpenter. It is actually a pretty tough environment for a house here, humid in the summer and cold in the winter, wood warps, wires fail..oh the headache. Our house is fairly modern, but it came with some (still not fixed) problems with a potential repair bill once we get around to it of about 15K

11
My 2P/5Rp:

Do not compromise, hold out for the dream home. So decided what that is first, and then focus your search.

The pecularities of the Swiss market can make trading homes difficult, epecially when timing is an issue - and certainly expensive. Purchasing a compromise property might mean that you find you are too encumbered to move quickly if the real dream home finally comes along - and you are then stuck for years - decades, even - with with that compromise.

Were it me, I would go for a free-standing home only, and one not in any kind of Quartier or under association regulations. Yes, such homes are very few and far between, but all other options mean that your neighbors will continue to dictate how your spend your money, how your live your life. That's something I can (grudgingly) accept when renting, but these restrictions truly get under my skin as a homeowner.

Best of luck in your search!

12
Wow, those prices! You don't want to hear what the equivalent will set you back around here.

You have a good methodology, but you are forgetting one thing. New builds are not on the best of best central locations with good views etc, if they are than you pay a lot of premium for it. Old apartments are, because they were built years ago where space was not an issue, today it is. So, it's much better to have something in a old building without a lift (but with a lake view or central location) than something brand new with lift but 20 minutes from the city center. Old buildings give exactly that, location location.

Apartment or house, it will depend on your budget and if you can upkeep the house with necessary repairs, apartment you pay charges but than somebody else is doing all of that for you. Yes, sometimes you hear people around you, but it's not the end of the world.

Don't worry about minergie and all of that, old apartments have new windows now and you won't notice a difference. For small % of saving it's not worth it. Somebody says to you "yeah it costs us 1.45 CHF a month to heat up our house" but than you go over there and your balls freeze. So it's very subjective.

Buy a good location, nice views apartment that you can easily rent. This way even if you decide to move in to a house or you change job and you have to move, by renting your apartment you will still be on the property ladder and you won't loose at all, your mortgage will be paid and you will have money left from it so you will pay part of your rent. Easy peasy.

Houses are not good investments, only if you expect big ROI, than yes, houses don't make much, compared to other things but they give you a piece of mind and no matter what happens to the price of your house, you will always have the same value of the money for it, maybe not the same amount but value will be similar or same. Sure, you could have bought an apartment in Geneva for 150k 40 years ago, but than 150k were a lot more money than today...

13
You get abestos at least until anything touched or renovated before 1989 in Switzerland...

And Abestos was/is everywhere. Make some research it's interesting.

14
Property is all about compromise and the cost or saving of that compromise.

The "advantage" of buying is you have greater control over those compromises/cost and with renovation some of these can be overcome or minimised.

"But I am buying new/minergie standard/perfect location&floorplan and within my budget, how am I compromising?" Well this comes at a cost premium so monthly budgets/potential future savings are compromised.

In buying I would avoid off the plan, the purchase price is not directly related to the build costs, it is what the market will stand and the developer has vested interests in cutting every corner they can. We would do the same in their position and any changes you make come at a huge cost premium again not necessarily related to the actual cost of change. Purchasing an existing property, what you see is what you get (well there are always a few surprises!!) and you have a lot more control over costs for changes and when those costs occur.

Personally I would always look for a property that lends itself to renovation and has some under utilised space (more in houses than apartment) but in doing so requires no or little structual work. Removing non loadbearing walls is messy but not overtly expensive or difficult. The most difficult part of a renovation is finding trades that will work with you and let you purchase your own materials which they use/install. The "problem" is for a lot of companies is they make very little on labour so their profit comes from what they can make on materials, which can vary greatly. So you will pay a cost premium for their labour but offset against a potential saving in material costs. If you are considering renovation then it is easier if you can tap into someone's network like an Architect or Interior designer moreso here than anywhere else in the world as oposed to a group of trades working together for the first time. I work in this field and have seen jobsites and costs go to hell because of disputes/lack of cooperation&communication between different trades on site.

15
My two cents, from recent experience: if you're buying a fixer-upper to live in, buy something you would be content to live in now . Not something that needs a new kitchen and new bathroom and the roof fixed and then we'll talk. Life throws some pretty interesting curves sometimes (in my case, a difficult pregnancy followed by life with newborn twins) and no guarantee you'll have the time or money to complete the renovations you'd like on the timetable you'd like.

This goes double if any of the renovations you're thinking about would require a building permit (extensions, garages, finishing the attic or basement). If a particular feature is absolutely essential to your happiness, buy a house/apartment which already has that feature.

As FMX says, think about mobility. We didn't - our front door is on the first floor, above a flight of stairs. Doesn't matter for the time being but I can see there's a day coming when it will. I'm investigating the possibilities (chairlift? residential lift? do up the shop downstairs as a granny flat?) but none of them look like particularly cheap or easy add-ons.

Apart from that I dearly love my old house with its character and creaky floors - and as long as the kids don't grow taller than 180cm I reckon they will too.

16
I very much agree that buying property is a compromise (like everything else in life) and all boils down to the cost.

We wouldn't want to rush buying something now that later might not suit our needs anymore. We will give it some time and proper research. Sometimes there are those dream homes with opportunities we let pass us by.

Definitely not in the market for too much DIY, at least now with our busy lives. Perhaps when retired one day it may change and I will gladly do some carpentry and masonry. Therefore our target seem to be either fully renovated apartments/houses from either 70's (the oldest) or modern. Free standing houses with garden would be ideal within reasonable commuting distance to our work places.

17
We have been through a similar decision taking time. I would probably recommend to look at the total cost of ownership of the new place. New apartments looked wonderful, until we saw the Nebenkosten bills. Some were well into 4 digit numbers per month. New and technically advanced lifts, garden and common area maintenance, cleaning services may cost a fortune. And you may still have the same headache as being in a rented place. Of course, one feels very tempted to get everything brand new. Well, prioritizing helps in decisions. We opted for a 40 year old place with open plan original design and nicely renovated kitchen in a row house. Large rooms and sensible layout. We know that the view will not change as the area is built, we also know that the house will need attention though not immediately. Good luck with your search!

18

What you haven’t mentioned is what your budget is. Don’t know what it’s like around the area you’re looking but a 4 bed place here will set you back 800k+ for a new build. So if 500K is your limit then new builds may be out to start with.

19
Budget, to put it lightly, is irrelevant at the moment because we might stretch it to more than initially planned (500k - 750k). The deposit of 20% is there ready up for grabs. It will just be the matter of longer repayment and of course higher than planned monthly installments.

Having said that I would have hated it if we were to exceed CHF1M.

What is important though that we buy it in a good location, nice view (no other building up in front of us in the future), less headache with renovations and DIY and it has to be something that you know you will always enjoy, now and after ten years.

We are not in a hurry as it is very serious decision but we want to start searching from 1-2 years before sealing the actual deal. Does it make sense?

20

Ah, now you see your budget of 500-750k gives you more scope. Ours was only a max of 350k which rather limited our options. So you need to decide what type you want more really. We definitely wanted a house so apartments were out. What do you think you’d prefer? Older with more space/land or newer with less things to worry about? House or apartment?

Another option for older properties (150-250k) is to strip them right back to the bare walls and go on from there. I’ve seen quite a few places around here where that’s been done. No idea of costs, but an architect could probably give you a rough idea if you see an old place you like the look of.