The interesting thread has been deleted - no connection to the original OP here - but I’m still curious.
While I think I now understand why the pay slips appear a bit concocted – regular lump sum and no further hassles for the shadow employer – I still ask myself: how can UNIA evaluate that both legs of the contribution came from a single source – the OP?
They must have been made by the payroll company to the AHV/ALV branch office. Even a regular permanent employee has nothing to do with such payments. They are made on his behalf by the employer, I would imagine as part of a monthly remittance for all together. So what makes it obvious that the OP is in fact independent, doesn’t meet criteria used for all the others in a similar situation?
Doesn’t really help much but if the ruling stands, I’d try to claw back the past contributions for as long possible.
When the payslip shows double of the usual social deductions for AHV, ALV etc.
If one is independent or dependent does not follow from this alone. The UNIA assessment can still be incorrect, and OP was depended, and might be entitled to ALV payments. The SVA office makes it clear that not the contract and setup is the determining factor, but other circumstances. https://svazurich.ch/unsere-produkte…rwerbende.html
However, once you are your own boss you will no longer be covered by ALV. This is also true if you work in high position for a SarL/GmBH or SA/AG: https://www.koordination.ch/fileadmi…-b/ale_b12.pdf
Further, if you have a sole proprietorship you do not have to pay ALV.
Using a payroll as an independent is not wrong or bad per se, if it is used for the right purposes and everything is done correctly.
I hope some others will share some court rulings, link to official sources etc. on this topic.
So the payroll company should have been a bit more creative with their slips and set aside the employer’s contribution – dumped it in another pool and deducted it from the regular compensatory “bonus” payments?
Haven’t waded through all the links you provided but it seems to me they outline AHV obligations, not ALV. Under ALV-Pflicht I found this flyer . To my comprehension, with minimal exceptions, everybody who pays AHV has to pay ALV too. That this does not necessarily make you eligible for the dole is perhaps a speciality/intentional cross-subsidization like the cap on AHV pensions. High incomes get the regular deductions but don’t return higher pensions.
Because either the OP or the PC FUed and disclosed the wrong documents to UNIA. Everyone is operating by the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law and so long as everyone does that it is not a problem. If however someone sticks it in their face they can't and won't ignore it.
I've got a question related to this thread. What to look out for if temp contract should be done by a payroll company (act as employer) and not with a temp agency? How to make sure that everything is in order and won't cause issues at some point with unemployment office? Any advice?
If you find a contract in Switzerland which is offered by an recruitment company (agency) that is not based in CH, they will have to get you employed by a Swiss payroll (Umbrella) company.
If the agency is based in CH and more importantly has a SECO employment license, they will put you through their own payroll.
In either case, your end salary will have deductions for both the employee/employer share of AVS, 2nd pillar, accident insurance etc, you will also have deductions to pay for your vacation etc and you will pay a handling fee for this payroll service which will differ between the companies involved.
If you able to choose a payroll company you can try and get the best deal on offer but if you are employed by the agency you have to accept their offer.
Check this database to see if your agent / payroll company has a SECO license, if not, be sure to check the above and ask for a simulation.
If a contract is offered by a company not based in Switzerland, the chances are very high that they are either no licensed to operate or are piggy backing off someone else’s license. It’s best to avoid such offers because if anything goes wrong it will be down to the contractor to sort it out.
The company is based in Switzerland but instead of providing the temporary employment contract through a temp agency they use a payroll company in Switzerland. Just found it under the Seco link as Betriebsart: Personalverleih (PV). So it should be alright.
If a contract is offered by a company not based in Switzerland, they definately do not have a SECO license so they have to use a Swiss SECO licensed payroll company. The payroll company cannot pass any commission directly onto the non Swiss based agency but must use a Swiss based SECO licensed agency to do this (split commission).
This of course eats into the rate paid by the client as there are three companies involved.
A majority of the contract deals on offered on Jobserve.com for example, are from non Swiss based agencies who will follow this model - it is all totally legal and happens all the time.
Your theory versus other peoples reality! No contractor wants to have to deal with this kind of crap, so the simplest thing it just to avoid it. Perhaps you are to young to remember but about a decade or so ago we had major blow out in this situation were over 50 contractors got caught up in this kind of mess and one of the directors of the payroll company faced criminal prosecution in the end.
I know the theory very well, but I prefer not to have to deal with the reality of relying on it.
So before we resort to violence, to my understanding these payroll arrangements remain a bit shady, especially if as outlined used by non-CH based agencies. Why are they allowed to pretend to temporarily employ indies for donkey’s years? Is this a local speciality or common all over Europe?
No they are not shady, they are clearly defined by CH law. It is just that certain veteran "experts" cast doubt on them based upon supposed experiences a long time ago.
Payroll agencies are fully legitimate and provide a valid service for indépendants / contractors. I have worked at large corps where thousands of people went through payroll companies.