I am 63 years old UK citizen been in Switzerland 13 years. I finished my last job on the 4th February 2022. My goal is leave CH and take out my BVG as a lump sum.
I thought it was going to be simple to transfer my BVG pension to a Vested Benefits account of my choice.
They (Swisslife) refuse to do this and they quote law:
RS 831.42 - Loi fédérale du 17 décembre 1993 sur le libre passage dans la prévoyance professionnelle vieillesse, survivants et invalidité (Loi sur le libre passage, LFLP) (admin.ch)
After a bit of research it seems that this might be correct. It seems I have to be in receipt of unemployment benefits to be able to do a VBA transfer. I do not qualify for RAV because I only have 10.5 months of RAV insurance payments over the last 2 years. I also need a de-registration certificate.
So I thought I will just take the BVG as a lump sum. They also claim this is not possible. I have to admit I don't understand the reason why because i was too upset and losing patience.
This situation now leaves me with the following unknowns:
At some point I will need to cancel my residence in CH and get a certificate to prove it. How much time do I get to physically leave after obtaining a de-registration certificate. ?
What is happening to my BVG stuck in SwissLife and how can I get access to it ?
Does the UK count as a non-EU country for transfer purposes or is there a special arrangement in place for the UK?
Can I get professional help from anyone which I am happy to pay for if it solves the problem. Its too difficult to read all the pages and pages of laws surrounding this but the last thing I want to do is deregister and leave all the BVG money here in an unresolved situation.
I can understand that this is annoying. There is probably a set procedure that they go through, and the trick might be to ask them what the steps are, that they need of you, if you emigrate to an EU country a non-EU country. Let them tell you both. Ask them please to point you to the specific paragraphs of the law that govern these steps.
If you've been trying to get this done by phone or by mail, and not getting anywhere, then I recommend that you write a letter on paper, in an envelope. Sometimes that results in a different person dealing with the matter.
One reason that a pension fund can legitimately refuse to release money is if you are married or in a registered partnership, but your spouse has refused to sign the release. Alternatively, if you are divorced and there was (as there usually is in Swiss divorce courts) an arrangement about how the pension money was going to be split between you and your ex-spouse. Pension funds can block the pay-out until they have received proper documentation of such situations and, as need be, the bank account details of both spouses.
You could have got a pension (and in some cases a lump sum) if you had said that is what you wanted, but it seems you just quit your job. You can still get a lump sum payment once you move permanently out of Switzerland, but you have to do that first. Until then, you are a Swiss resident.
You can generally deregister 1 month before actually leaving, but it is best to check with your commune.
On the point of not being able to transfer to a vested benefit account, why is this not allowed? typically when one finishes employment with a company the pension has to be moved to a vested pension account for holding (regardless of RAV) until the next employment.. is the scenario described by the OP only because he is at retirement level?
Thats exactly what I thought. But as the law that I quoted says - to move to a VBA you either have to be moving to another job or you need to be in receip of unemployment benefits. Neither of which applies to me
I have no idea why the unemployment benefits has anything to do with me getting my pension funds out
To answer the other question I did not quit my job. I was on a fixed term contract
Can you point to the paragraph of the law which states this? If you don't have it, can you ask the pension fund for it?
If the above information is, indeed, accurate, then it might help if you apply to the RAV (unemplyoment) and get a letter from stating that you are not eligible (because, as you wrote above, you do not have the requisite number of months of contribution) go back to the pension fund and demontrate, with that letter, that you cannot claim unemployment benefits.
In any case, I still think your best bet would be to ask the pension plan what steps they need you to take if you are emigrating to an EU country to a non-EU country and ask them to send you a copy of their rules and the paragraphs of the law which apply to those two situations.
Anyway, since you want to take out the full amount, why bother with this route? you can just submit a request direct with Swisslife and they will start the process
I think there is a thread, made by Fatmanfilms, on this topic. He took it all out as he was not employed = subject to social service payments when he left the country, I think.
Out of curiosity I've been reviewing that law you quoted and I have not found any reference to having to be registered at RAV or anything like that. Maybe there is some confusion because you are 63 so you fall under the category of "Special case: termination from the age of 58" from this link?:
I understand that, in that case, being allowed to take a lump sum or not (if you stay ed in Switzerland) would depend on the regulations of your fund. But I would still think that you should anyway be allowed to move the funds to a vested benefits account even without being registered at VAT, i.e. I see the option of getting a pension before legal age can only be a choice, not an obligation.
Depending on the amount accrued in your pension it may make sense to have this looked at by a professional (i.e. lawyer or pension specialist):
- possibly you can already claim retirement and get either a pension of a lump-sum payment. The latter may be of interest from a tax perspective since I presume it will be taxed less than if it gets paid out in England...
- from what I see you only need to show that you are continuing to work or are on unemployment benefits if you want to keep the pension in a vested benefit account, otherwise they will treat you as an early retiree...
- if you leave for England you should be able to get the lump sum paid out as well but you will need to show that you are leaving...
So I speculate that their position is that (i) they cannot let you move the money to a vested benefit account since you are in an early retiring age and for that you would need to show continuing employment or unemployment benefits, (ii) they could give you the money as a pension (monthly) or pension (lump-sum) but that would require you to opt for one or the other (and you may have notice deadlines to comply with).
It is a very stupid situation, happened to my wife after then end of one job. Also with Swisslife but I guess this is how all 2nd pillar institutions work.
Well, any of two requirements should be met to be able to move that money to a vested benefits account of your choice. Either the employer proactively sends a letter to Swisslife telling "person X does not work here anymore", or times passes Swisslife asks the employer to send the 2nd pillar money and the employer answer, "duh, forgot to tell you, person X doesn't work here anymore".
Since wife's termination was not that friendly, ex-exmployer did nothing and some months passed until Swisslife asked them for 2nd pillar money. Then, she got a letter from Swisslife "he just learned you don't have a job at X anymore, look for new vested benefits account, if you don't reply by Y date, money will go to federal bla bla".
I guess the problem is that the whole system has a paternalistic design. Employees are dumb, employers are the intelligent and trustworthy ones that need to trigger all the stuff. Since the goal is to get the money in the account and not change the Swiss retirement system.....ask your ex-employer if they notify the 2nd pillar institution that you don't work there anymore.
I will be 65 shortly, was let go, am receiving unemployment and continue to be part of the ex-employer’s pension fund.
I requested a transfer of the pillar 2 funds on retirement to vested benefits foundation to stagger the withdrawal over 2 years {Staggered withdrawals from pillar 3a and the pension fund are worthwhile – finpension}.
But the pension fund is refusing to do that. I would expect the federal regulation to be applied by the pension fund. Appreciate your suggestions and ideas. Thank you in advance.
*Vested benefits can be withdrawn up to five years before or after the normal retirement age (women 64 / men 65) (Art. 16 para. 1 Freizügigkeitsverordnung).
Übergangsbestimmung zur Änderung vom 30. August 2023
Personen, die ihre Altersleistungen nach Artikel 16 Absatz 1 in den Jahren 2024–2029 beziehen müssten, weil sie das Referenzalter erreichen oder bereits überschritten haben, und die nicht mehr erwerbstätig sind, können die Auszahlung dieser Leistungen bis zum 31. Dezember 2029, höchstens aber fünf Jahre über das Erreichen des Referenzalters hinaus, aufschieben.