Hello everyone!
I'm thinking about opening a pillar 3a Fonds and was wondering what you guys think about this one at Raiffeisenbank:
https://www.raiffeisen.ch/raiffeisen/internet/home.nsf/0/DF629972A00E2DDAC125785400388C7E/$FILE/PensionGrowth-d.pdf
its a Fond with 67% in stocks, the TER is not cheap at 0.92%, and it seems you have to pay 3% when buying in.
Is there anything compareable? I could also go for less % in Stocks if the TER is much lower or there are some other benefits.
Looking foreward to your opinions.
Cheers, Hanno
Where do you see the 3% ?
I've never paid a fee like that for investing in a P3A fund.
https://www.raiffeisen.ch/raiffeisen/internet/home.nsf/0/A8239E2081EA75DEC125781C002BEDBA/$FILE/KIID%20Raiffeisen%20Pension%20Growth%20A_DE.pdf
Here it says that in German on page 2, it says you have to pay 3% once when investing, but 3% is the highest value and it depends on special deals. maybe its just a general thing rather than for Pillar 3a.
Einmalige Kosten vor und nach der Anlage
Ausgabeaufschlag 3,00%
Rücknahmeabschlag nicht anwendbar
Dabei handelt es sich um den Höchstbetrag, der von Ihrer Anlage vor der
Anlage und vor der Auszahlung Ihrer Anlage abgezogen wird.
Kosten, die vom Teilvermögen im Laufe des Jahres abgezogen werden
Laufende Kosten 0,84%
Kosten, die das Teilvermögen unter bestimmten Umständen zu tragen hat
Performancegebühr nicht anwendbar
Sound expensive, I would look for something better
Yes I am looking for something but I couldnt find anything that great yet. All Fonds are like maximum 30-45 % invested in stocks which is not that great in my position, and the expenses are also not that low, sometimes even higher.
The 1.2% maximum which you get on normal interests is also not really an option.
Did someone find anything good yet? Im sure some must be invested in some 3a fonds here
Why not just invest the money where you want to in the fund you want? Tax saving & good investment decisions rarely go hand in hand.
Yes thank you, I will do some investing aside from this, but I feel like I have to use the Tax deduction for my retirement as well and am looking for the best options out there
Ask your bank - the Pillar 3a funds from the big providers are all pretty similar, and none I've come across charge particularly high fees.
For me the tax saving is worth it as part of a diversified investment
- pillar 2 is mandatory but the returns suck, it's very safe though
- pillar 3a forms my "low risk" diversification (even though I've selected the highest risk fund, it's pretty restricted) helped by the initial tax break
- the rest is aimed for good growth in normal investments
The pension fund is taxable when you cash it in, if the fund grows 5 times you will pay far more tax by investing through a pension, remember there is no CGT in Switzerland.
No matter what happens you save the difference in the normal tax rate and the reduced pillar 3a cash in rate, and that cash in rate is aparently about 5% for Zurich.
The tax saving you effectively invested in the pillar 3a will also have grown 5 times.
A worked example (using round numbers, I know the amounts are above the allowance):
10000 invested in P3a == 8000 net paid after tax rebate
50000 after 5x growth == 40000 after 5x growth if not in P3a
47500 available after 5% tax == 40000 available with no CGT
I used the calculator here: http://www.pens-expert.ch/en/pensfre...ithdrawals.php
But you do have to pay those 5% no matter if you invest in funds or just get interests somewhere, right?
@Golfer, this one looks interesting with that TER. I will have a closer look thanks
Not exactly - as fatmanfilms says, you don't pay tax on capital gains, so a straight investment in stocks (so called pillar 3b) doesn't pay tax on the price gains.
You do pay tax on dividends and interest as though it was income.
I just wrote to several providers to get some informations about their products. I will see who has the cheapest rates alltogether and then decide.
Thanks for your informations and tips meanwhile
You have no idea of future tax rates, which is a considerable risk you are ignoring.
Buy Berkshire Hathaway which does not pay a dividend
BVG rules state only up to a certain % can be in equities, so you won't find higher risk ones really. Look at Pictet, I invested in one (have to have pillar 3 for mortgage) which has a good TER and good equity exposure. They are resold by many banks here
It's a big shame it's so over regulated, a pension is a long term investment so it should be possible to have 100% in equities. I had my frozen pension with Pictet, good for CH but really lack lustre performance in reality.