I am naturalized Swiss (from the U.S.) married to a Swiss. Because we live in a 3rd country (husband works for the Swiss gov't) the jurisdiction for a separation or divorce for us is Switzerland, even though we aren't actually living there.
Here is my concern, and maybe someone knows something about it:
If we split up, is there any chance that a Swiss court would let me take the children to the United States to live?
I really do not want to live in Switzerland on my own if I can avoid it.
Speaking only from hearsay, as opposed to any specific point of reference, in situations of marriage break-up and custody, the courts nearly always favour the mother - traditional values, etc.
As a naturalised Swiss, your rights shouldn't be diminished in favour of your husband.
However, the problem could well arise, depending on the nationality of your children. I would imagine that, as you're US and your husband is Swiss (working for the EDA??), there's every chance that your kids have Swiss (and not dual) nationality. If so, this is where the real stumbling block may lie - especially as you want to remove them from Switzerland.
Apologies if my assumptions are wrong, and hopefully you'll get replies and pointers from those with a more accurate knowledge.
That's good. I was under the misunderstanding that the US didn't allow dual nationality. I have an uncle who's lived in the states for donkeys years - on his 3rd Miss America - completely legal and fully integrated into the system - just without citizenship/nationality. In order for him to have that, he would have to relinquish his British nationality - which he's never been willing to do.
But now I think about it, I realise my error -- any child born on US territory, from any nation, automatically has rights of US citizenship as well as maintaining their original nationality - so my initial assumption of no dual nationality wasn't accurate.
That's got to put the ball back in your court, but you still need some guiding to something official. Hopefully that will be forthcoming in other replies.
That's a common misunderstanding by people, such as myself, who remember when the US actually did not allow dual citizenship. That was changed a number of years ago.
Any child born to an American parent can be American - and not just until they're 18, as is the case for children born in the States to non-American parents. I just went down the the embassy with the birth certificates, no problemo - automatic yankification.
However, I don't know if Switzerland acknowledges their other citizenship, or if that would have any bearing on things. A Swiss in Switzerland is subject to Swiss laws only - no?
Ok, getting back on topic. It is highly unlikely that you will be allowed to take the kids to live in the US unless your husband agrees. You need to get him to agree to this.
I`m rather old fashioned, but ......... "You are what you think you are" ... So try thinking like a Lioness with cubs. You are their mother, you are a naturalised Swiss ...... with American bloodline, you do not wish to live alone in Switzerland, so you take your cubs to America, where you (obviously?) have extended family to help you cope ............
Good luck, and hope their Dad approves. If he does then you have no problems. If he does not ..... then ..... well, no-one has the right to deny a mother her children!
Yes, that sounds pretty logical to me. But what about if he isn't in Switzerland himself? He works overseas for the government, and we are in a 3rd world country. Could I 'make' him stay in Switzerland too, for the sake of joint custody?
I think you'll find that CH has bi-lateral agreements with most "friendly" countries regarding dual nationality, so that aspect shouldn't be a problem.
Re. the 2nd point in the above quote box, I think that's a given. That's getting more into the legalities, when you'll need professional (costly) advice - especially if this becomes a cross-border custody issue.
You need to progress as far as you can, as amicably as possible with your husband, before the lawyers start stealing your money, and may need to consider a compromise of remaining here, initially, until things are finalised. Your husband should be legally bound to support you and the children.
If you've already been to the Embassy (I'm assuming in your current location), they should have been able to give you a bit more info. regarding where you stand - however, I'm also assuming that you may have to tread carefully if that's where you husband works (?).
Well, there is that pesky convention on international child abduction to which both the US and Switzerland are signatories. Pretty dangerous advice, I'd say.
I would think that for joint custody to work, he would have to be here, otherwise (I would imagine), that sole custody to you would have to be considered - no Swiss court would enforce (or be able to) a custody agreement in a 3rd country - but this is only guesswork on my part and not based on any legal knowledge or experience.
Yes I did think of this. But I didn't know where your husband or you are so I don't know how they will treat your situation. Generally they don't allow you to cross country borders with children as then it's not possible to enforce custody decisions. Your situation seems really very complicated. Have you discussed this with your husband? Does it seem like there will be a fight?
But if you must be under Swiss law then the children will be considered Swiss. How will they deal with this custody issue? Wow! Don't know. Like was said above, you need to tread carefully and try to work this out amicably between you ASAP.
This is not exactly true. Under Swiss law they make a distinction between parental care and custody, custody being seen as a subcategory of parental care. Generally, one parent is given custody, meaning the child lives primarily with one parent and the other parent has certain visiting rights. A very recent Swiss Supreme Court decision says that the parent with primary custody can make decisions as to where to live, even if that means abroad, without the other parent's permission, with certain restrictions. This kind of decision would be made on a case-to-case basis, taking the needs of the child(ren) into consideration. (Decision: http://vlex.ch/vid/209411839 )
As miniMia pointed out, this is a complicated issue. Further complicating it is who is living where at the moment, which is unclear. If I have understood correctly, you are in Switzerland but your husband is abroad? If that is indeed the case, and the children are with you, there is a possibility that you may be able to take the children to the US, but, as I said, this is only a possibility and you really need to consult with a professional.
I never ever ever thought I'd ever say this- but maybe there is a case here for trying to stay together for the kids sake. I assume you've tried mediation, counselling and all avenues. It seems that whatever happens, the kids will be deprived of one parent. Whatever courts decide, how can joint custody work. Heart breaking for all of you - but I'm just thinking, the kids are innocent and their future has to come first. I sincerely hope you can find a way to make this work.
What a messy situation I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.
Living in different countries is definitely going to make it tough on your kiddies. My ex lives in Zurich and I live in Basel which is hard enough He sees her once a week for 4 or 5 hours and sometimes not at all. It's hard for all of us but we try our best.
I considered moving back to the UK when we split up and one of the deciding factors that made me stay here was that her Dad lives here. I want her to know when she is older that I did everything to try to ensure she had a relationship with her Daddy.
Is there no way you can both stay in the same country?
Good luck with everything and I hope things work out for all of you