Let's say a salary for the identical position would be in Switzerland 120k gross. Would be a full time remote 60k salary from an eastern EU country more attractive supposing a smaller swiss company? Any needed presence in Switzerland would be payed by the swiss employer (travel and accomodation).
With microsoft stack, what is the chance to find any swiss company who is willing to employ me from an EU country on full remote basis? If it's just depending on the salary what (employer full cost) salary is a rational expectation? Employment would be done B2B (involving swiss payroll if needed).
Unless the company already knows you is the chance around 0. Because you are an individual guy. There is countless of service companies offering contractors for the same rate or better with a massive benefit for the Swiss company: If things dont work out with one individual for whatever reasons... will the service provider get a replacement at no cost and within a short time frame... at a single calls notice.
P.S: We all know that a developer doesnt make 60k CHF a year in Hungary... the median would be somewhere around 7 Mil HUF, no? Less than 20k...even if its 25 or 30... definitely not 60.
As Treverus said, as a direct employee then unlikely, except where the Swiss company actually has a branch in the relevant country as well.
The key problem is tax and other employment laws in your country. An employer doesn't want the hassle of dealing with that, and they aren't going to trust an individual to do it.
More and more countries are cracking down on this "disguised employment", and if it isn't done right the costs to a company can be very high.
You may think the company doesn't have much to worry about if they aren't present in the country, but any company big enough to bother with looking abroad always has the possibility that may change - even having a client there could become difficult if they're breaking the rules on employment.
Oh, but they do - when did you last check?
An experienced IT guy at a multi / US company (a lot of these have branches in Hungary) can these days make 1.5-2 mHUF gross per month, and this is not even necessarily a management position. Plus bonuses.
The real question to me is why would someone want to work for a Swiss comany for pennies, if they can make the same kind of money (or even more) locally or working for a company in the EU remotely (or even in the US - yes, I know some people who managed to do this). It is much easier to find something in the EU, I see more and more positions advertised as 100% remote - not sure about the pay though...
Another thing to consider is that you cannot really work for a bank or an insurance company, as they insist on keeping their data within CH borders. I had a colleague on contract in Zurich from Romania who wanted to go back to his home country for a few weeks while working, and they did not let him, because he had access to customer (production) data, he had to take days off.
What you really want is to work remotely (from outside CH) but get as much money as if you were working from within CH. Good luck with that
You have to ask yourself, what's in it for the swiss company so that it is worth their time, effort and risk to go though all the legal paperwork in order to hire a random guy, just for the sake of saving a few bucks, which may eventually backfire and cost them even more? You must have some pretty compelling arguments and very concrete answers to this question, in order to convince them.
From personal experience, I am doing something similar. In addition to my normal job here in Switzerland, I have such an agreement with a big financial institution in my home country, even though I am not living and registered there. The reason they agreed to do that was (a) because someone vouched for me and is getting a slice of my income in perpetuity and (b) because I was bringing knowledge to the table that they didn't have and they couldn't find locally. It is not that I am the smartest guy in there, it is just that they needed a particular skillset a lot, which they couldn't find and I happened to have and it was worth their time and effort to make an agreement out of this.
However, in order for them to cover their asses, they drafted a 30 page contract where they stipulated the type of the relationship, my commitments, the terms of payment, their tax obligations (or lack thereof), etc. and included non-solicitation/non-compete and other clauses, making it so complicated that I had to hire a corporate lawyer (and pay around 5k), just to be sure that I am not being screwed.
Needless to say, if they find the skillset locally, you can imagine who gets shafted. So my lawyer changed the contract to make sure that it is crystal clear to whom the Intellectual Property belongs and what I am (not) allowed to do, if they decide to end our relationship.
Other that a situation like this, I only see very small chances of something like this happening.
Small companies (usually still startups) do this. Definitely it happens in VD, if the German speaking side is so different upon this. I worked for one company who's got ~60% of developers in Spain, and another one which almost totally moved to Poland where in Switzerland we were tasked with tech management... However the part about B2B is rather hard to manage. If you manage to make someone's head about hiring you from abroad, they'll most likely discuss hiring a team abroad so they'll register the local branch and follow all the rules to hire you locally.
1.5 mHUF gross is ca. 2mHUF employer cost, which means 5357 chf/month=64 285 chf/year cost for the swiss employer (B2B).
Sure, exactly the pay matters, tell me other countries in EU with similar pay as Switzerland...
I am one of those already.
To get the same living standards in CH I need to work 5 days week (for 120k chf yearly).
In Hungary I would need to work (with the above mentioned 1.5mHUF salary) only 3 days per week - and then I am in my home country at too.
That's the point only.
You would need to work through an employment agency in your home country.
The agency bills the Swiss company, and then pays you (in accordance with local laws).
The Swiss company will not pay a "Swiss" salary, for someone sitting in a lower cost country. They will pay the market rates for that country.
Most of the larger employment agencies have branches in Easter Europe (as well as in Switzerland). Best to contact them. They can assist you in finding a contracting job in Switzerland. Some travel may be required. They will take anywhere from 10% to 30% of your salary. If you find a job yourself in Switzerland and ask them to be a "payroll provider" then the cut is smaller.
This will only work if you have experience and skills that are in high demand i.e. full stack cloud developer, AI this, that or the other, etc.
Many of the larger Indian outsourcing companies now have offices in Eastern Europe (employing local people). The large multinational prefer that model over hiring contractors in low cost countries through agencies.
Stop dreaming, only cheap, mundane, low-skills jobs allows employee shifts without any disturbance to the business. Skilled workers are hired for their skills. The business can't slow down because you'd like to work 50% only. If you find a Swiss startup to accept your terms you'll be working 12h 5+ days a week (as any employee of a startup whether in Switzerland or abroad) for that money
Not entirely so. Plenty of skilled people work 80% or less. I worked for one company as an employee 40% for over a year . Of course this is usually after you're a known quantity.
@OP - of course it's possible., but it isn't easy. Look on the job boards. Some companies do offer entirely remote roles on a B2B basis (i.e. you are responsible for all taxes and social contributions - or you go through a payroll company)..
My son was asked at a job interview recently what percentage he would like to work to work, actually lots of companies were open to less than 100%.
They were also absolutely fine when ne said he would be away doing his military service for four months from January.
As a new graduate about to embark on his first job here he went for 100% as he’s more interested in the money than the time off. He’s quite happy with the six weeks of holiday they get at his new employer though.
This is in web development.
But 60k is not CH pay.... that is low even for EU niveau. I guess you are trying to be competitve by lowering your pay so much that any company in CH would be eager to take you on, despite being remote? But then again, why insist on being employed / contracted by a CH company?
I'm totally confused now. So why don't you just go back to Hungary and work there 3 days a week, if that makes you happy?
Although to be honest, I don't think that a 3 days a week workweek is that popular outside CH (where 80% is kind of the norm, and supported / accepted in most cases), unless you are a mother with small children, or have some other special condition.
Guys, you are talking about local people taking permanent employment. The OP is asking about remote contracting. Quite a different thing.
No employer is really happy with the military service, but you really cant publicly say anything against it... imagine the Blick articles on "they hired a foreigner instead"...
I’m sure they’re not as it must badly mess with their planning but they could have chosen another Swiss candidate who was exempt or had already completed the basic training.
I think being assigned to cyber security in the army probably did him a favour.
Yes, to be competitive
CH because I have my most work experience in CH, swiss citizen already, etc.
Exactly, CH companies are more willing to employ part time than hungarian employers (and for probably much higher rate too)