Private vs public schools comparison

Thanks all for the replies! I just forwarded materials from Champittet to my friend, but looking through them I learnt a couple of points.

First, the tuition for primary school stands about 14K annual, plus additions for transportation, meals, etc. I would expect it to climb up total to 16-18K, but still it is not 25K I was talking about initially. BUT of course the higher you go, the more expensive it becomes and for the maturite it goes to 25K before all additions (30K total? :-))

Second, (and I did not realize that before) Champittet is a Catholic school and that means that they have religious education from primary school on. I do not think that it is optional. As I understand, for many people it alone could be the single reason to send their kids there. I suspect it is not the case for my friend though, so she most likely will have to go the public school road if they decide to live close to Lausanne.

I am now thinking about my own kids. I will try to help them to get to Maturite, of course, but perhaps I should start saving more for possible last 5 years in a private school ... ;-)))

Again, thank you all very much for your input. I am still curious if there are private schools around here that are not affiliated with any religion?

Miss Kitty

PS. Mel07, it seems you are the only parent here with a kid going to Champittet. Please post your experience, I am sure many people will be interested! And good luck!

There is another private school in Lausanne called Ecole Nouvelle Suisse Romande (ENSR) which is also excellent. It is not affiliated with any religions and is actually a little less expensive than Champittet. We really liked that school too and the staff we met when we visited were great. Extremely helpful and happy for us to look around and ask lots of questions. This may suit your friends situation better if they are keen on going private.

Mel07, thank you for your reply. In fact, I've looked at the school and suggested it to my friend. I think she did not like much the fact that it has boarding school, I think she's had some bad experience with schools

where some students are boarding. Yet, I feel that she should definitely give it a try. Would you mind sharing any thoughts on how the two schools compare?

Thanks again,

Kitty

PS. I do not know if it is OK to ask, but would greatly appreciate your comment if you find it feasible. I know that many expats have their employers paying for the schools. Yet my understanding is that when people transfer to the "local" status, this perk disappears. In other words, most of the employers agree to pay for a few years, but not forever, not for all school years... Is it roughly the same with you or you expect your employer (and he agreed to ;-)) to pay for all the time?

on the question of cost - someone (a swiss) once told me that he sent both his boys to private school because in the end, the 15k or whatever it was was "all inclusive" - according to him, not only lunch, music & sports coaching, etc., even the annual ski trip was included in the price.

The public schools are not really free - you still need to cough up money for sports, lunch, school trips, all sorts of extra-curricular activies, etc., nanny hire (because of the inconvenient schedule) and this could add up to a few thousand per year anyway. So from his point of view, the additional cost for private school is not too big.

Has anyone calculated how much the "real cost" of public schools is? I am curious.

I think we had to pay about 5-10 francs for two school trips last year!

No, wait, that was to pay for extras. The entrance fees, transport etc. were all paid by school.

We have to pay for nothing else, not a copy nor even a pencil. Almost embarassing. But very democratic. Free schooling in other countries can leave parents with a big back-to-school bill for uniform, books, materials.

My impression fom private schools is the opposite, always something uexpected to pay for-photocopies, materials, transport...

Good question -- and one that I have been pondering for a while, since my daughter is about to start school this autumn. My employer pays a large portion of private school fees, which makes even most expensive schools cheaper than what we are currently paying for state daycare.

I tried to calculate the cost of public school education for full-time working parents. In our specific example, our daughter would have to stay in school for lunch and from 3 to 6 pm, which costs approximately 15 CHF per day (9 CHF for supervision and 6 for the school meal) or 300 per month. For Wednesdays we would have to hire a babysitter or a maman du jour, which is another 10-15 CHF per hour. My son would stay in the crèche for another 2 years, which would cost 2,100 CHF per month and is quite far from our local school, which makes commuting more complicated. All this means that the cost of keeping them in the state system during next two years would be the same as putting them into a private school.

When it comes to quality of education, I have no personal experience with any educational institution in Switzerland, which is why we registered them in both our local and a private school and postponed deciding until autumn.

Not that it all matters very much. Apparently, parents who are themselves educated and who surround children with books have done all that is necessary to increase the chances that their children will succeed academically. Or so say the authors of Freakonomics...

I have spent quite some time reading through the books on the subject what exactly influences children's abilities. Well, this is not directly connected to private vs public, but may be tangentially relevant. While some part (on some accounts up to 60-80% of variation) is certainly due to genetics, the rest is environment.

The environmental part is split between the influence of parents and the family (that I believe ljm and Freakonomics were referring to), influence of the peer group (Harris, Nurture Assumption & No two are alike ) and the impact of hard work and exercise (Gladwell, Outliers ). I do understand that to separate these effects is not very easy and, perhaps, impossible. The second influence, peer pressure, is the most relevant to the topic of this discussion.

My own experience (not in Switzerland) was that in a private school the peer pressure could go either way, good and bad. One school I attended had most of the students being simple snobs, while in the second all people, teachers and students, were all extremely excited about the next interesting thing they were going to learn. I do think that the kind that the private school turns out to be is very idiosyncratic, and depends very much on the teachers and their attitude/enthusiasm. Public schools are, perhaps, more homogeneous and more correlated with the area they are in. I would assume that the students in public schools here in Switzerland, coming from a really small area around the school, have more similar background and interests, and, hopefully, less incentive to show off wealth, etc. Is it true? Could it be that more private schools are of the first type (posh and snobbery) than of the second (really learning-oriented, and even better equipped than public schools to pursue this goal). Many people who do not send their kids to a private school would say "Yes", but is it a selection bias? What do you think?

Kitty

Miss Kitty, forgive me for saying this, but I do believe that you are not looking at this situation realistically. As I mentioned in my post No 19, if your friends intend staying here and can afford private education, they should go for it, ditto, even more so, if they are here for a short period of time. Yes, of course, the child may find himself sitting next to someone whose skintone is not as white as the driven snow, but does that matter? My son spent several years in the same class as the neice of the world's most wanted terrorist, certainly didn't do him any harm!

I absolutely agree with Miss Kitty about the different types of private schools. When we went out to Japan we visited two private international schools.

In one we were shown around by a student, no faculty had time to talk with us, we were greeted by kids who were shouting "This school sucks man, you don't want to come here". When we visited the lunch hall I was hit by a barrage of flying strawberries having ended up in the middle of a food fight.

In the other school we were shown round by the deputy headmaster. He took time to sit down with us (including the boys) and answer our questions, including some that our sons had. Every child we came across during our visit greeted us with some form of "hello" and a smile. There was (impressive) student art on all the walls.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which school our boys ended up going to. And we were very happy with the final result.

Merrylegs, I am sorry if I did not express myself well before. I (and my friend) am not concerned about possible presence of skin of any color. On the contrary, I consider it to be completely irrelevant (or wish it to be irrelevant). My friend's second generation american chinese and has canadian husband of french decent. They are somewhere between agnosticism and atheism in religious terms, that's why I think Champittet is out. But they do have enough money to pay for private schools for both kids if needed. Yet neither them nor me (while of modest means) tend to approach the problem with the idea that one has to buy everything (s)he can afford, and this is always the way to go. More expensive does not always mean better, especially when personal definition of "better" might turn out to be different from the prevailing opinion.

Kitty

Hello Miss Kitty --

I'm jumping in kinda late to this, but I have been at EPFL for 5 years now and i don't know anyone whose kids are at Champittet... most of the people I know have their kids either in the public system, the EPFL kindergarten (which goes on through elementary school if you're lucky enough to get a spot) or the International School of Lausanne. I think if you want your kids to go to school in French, you can manage the scheduling, and your kid doesn't have major learning disabilities, the public system is fine. ...

My 14yr old has been attending private school for 3 years - it is now at the point where it costs approx 28k per year for him to go.

I dont think it is worth it - i have never been very happy with the school - so we are looking to send him to another school - still a private one, but much smaller and so far I like what I have seen.

i am hoping to talk to some parents about thier impression - but to me - for 28k a year I woudl expect a good level of teaching (i.e teachers not answering thier phones during lessons - homework being marked etc)

Hi, I moved here four weeks ago with my husband and 9 year old daughter and have joined this forum specifically to find out more about the school system. My daughter attended a lovely private school in the UK, so we decided to enrole her in a private school here. Unfortunately after three weeks I decided it was not the right school for my daughter and have removed her. I have managed to secure a place in our local school in St Sulpice. I would like to know if anyone knows anything about the school please? I'd be really grateful for any feedback - good or bad!

Many thanks in anticipation,

Julie

JulieAnn, our kids do not go to St Sulpice school but we considered renting a place in St Sulpice, so inquired about the school. My impression was very positive, the only thing special is that the school is quite small, which could be both good and bad. My husband has a colleague with a kid in st sulpice school and they are happy with the school.

Would it be Ok to ask about the reasons that made you to take your daughter out of the private school?

Good luck with the transition,

Miss Kitty

This is a very interesting post - we had the same issue as to whether to choose public or private. I haven't read all the posts here so sorry if I cover anything that's already been said.

My son will start in a private school in Zurich, next August (we don't move to Zurich until end of June) for the following reasons. Note that the first two reasons were the most important for us.

1. Our son is very much a verbal kid. He's been accurately described as having verbal diarrhoea. He has struggled to learn a new language for the last 2 years (mandarin which, granted, is a very difficult language to learn but he seems to do worse than his class mates). So to put him in a local school where he has to learn both high german and swiss german from nothing, and where no-one speaks english, seemed too harsh. Our son also specifically asked not to go to a school where they don't speak English.

2. Our view of the local system (right or wrong) is that it is very regimented and authoritarian. We have always tried to encourage intellectual curiosity and therefore the IB program (which uses inquiry based learning) is a more natural fit.

3. Private schools usually have a lower teacher-student ratio which should ensure more attention to each child. That also helps if your child struggles with any particular subject as they should get more one on one. Kids from private schools also seem to be ahead academically of their public school peers.

4. Private schools in theory attract better and more motivated teachers. This is certainly true in countries such as the US, UK, Aus, etc, as most teachers would prefer to be in the private system than the public partly as their salaries are higher and partly as the students are generally more motivated - not sure if this is true of CH.

5. The parents themselves are generally better educated and as they have the option of choosing a private school, they tend to be more vocal and demand more of the school, otherwise they move their kids.

6. Similarly, as the parents from a private school are generally better educated their children are in a home environment where academic performance of a higher level is the norm. (This may also be true of the better public schools in CH.)

7. The facilities, resources, and opportunities for different subjects are better in private schools than most public schools.

8. The education from a private school is more "transportable" to other countries. It provides a more rounded education. Also (if you believe the private schools), the kids themselves are more adaptable because of the teaching approach - it supposedly produces children that are more independent thinkers and problem solvers. And because they're around kids from all corners of the world they're more exposed to different cultures and more accepting of differences (all in theory).

Having said all that, I think there are two major drawbacks with private schools (apart from the cost).

First is that you don't integrate into the community, don't learn the language as quickly, and the kids do have to deal with classmates moving on regularly. I think this is a big negative if you're planning on staying in CH long term (which we are).

Secondly, and I hope this isn't true of CH, is the expat brat phenomenon. We have seen this in HK - some of these kids have alot of money and seem to have way too much freedom. They are very arrogant and rude, and have no respect for other people. This is not being posh - these are intelligent but very badly behaved kids. While these kids are the exception, you would not want your child associating with them or being the butt of their pranks. (Thankfully our kids are too young for this at the moment.)

Sorry if I rambled - we went through alot of heartache trying to decide. Hope these thoughts help.

If your comments are meant to be about private schools worldwide I would have to argue with most of the points you make. Private school teachers are often less qualified, lower paid, classes can be bigger as they are profit making businesses. In my country public school exam results and university entrance rate are equal if not in favour of public school... I could go on but I will refrain from it.

But I will agree with you with regard to the rich brat syndrome, unfortunately that does exist, even here. And another problem is if you are here long term you have a child who doesn't necessarily speak the local language after years of being here. As many pupils of international schools are not native English speakers they are struggling to keep up with that, without an extra language. They may end up with problems reading and writing their mother tongue without help.

I think any generalisation is impossible, if you come from a country where the public system has a good reputation you expect that everywhere, which may not be the case, and vice-versa. Local research is vital and not relying on clichés.

I am moving in late June and we were thinking about the same thing. I am currently a public school teacher in New York and I know in terms of the school system in the U.S, generally private school teachers are less qualified and usually the teachers who couldn't (for whatever reason) secure much more desired jobs in the public schools. I think at this point we are leaning towards sending my son to a public schoo in Lausanne, and providing some extra tutoring to help his French along a bit, because he speaks no French. I teach English as a Second Language and I know from experience that (barring any learning issues) children can learn languages incredibly fast if given the right support and encouragement, and given the fees for private schools and the mixed opinions, I think we are better off, for now, trying out the less expensive option. Plus, I would rather he feel like he's becoming part of the community where he is living. Any opinions/advice?

Wow Mabern - I thought you paid for smaller classes and better teachers in private schools?? Certainly in Aus (where I'm from) and UK (where I've lived) the private schools have better reputations and having researched them there they certainly have smaller classes, teachers prefer to work there, and their academic results are better. And I work for a US company so spent alot of time there - from what my colleagues there do I thought private schools were better than public in the US as well.

So I'm interested why your views are so different??? (It really surprises me.)

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Points taken Elie, all schools are different even the local ones vary from school to school. (I think you mean pedagogy rather than lexicology. And while I don't speak any German, it seemed the local system was much more direct instruction than enquiry based. But as I said in my earlier post that could be right or wrong.)

For us, ultimately it came down to which school we liked and which system we prefered, having visited quite a number of them. Ultimately it goes on gut feel as there are certain things that you can't really judge from a visit (eg. how motivated the teachers are...and that will vary from year to year anyway).