Private vs public schools comparison

Hi, My friend is relocating to Switzerland from Montreal and she asked me to advise her on the subject of the schooling here. My kids are very happy in the public system and hopefully will stay in it. However, putting myself into my friend's shoes I started to think again about private vs public schools in Switzerland in general, and around Lausanne in particular. It turned out that I still do not know much about the reasons behind people's choices between private and public systems, and that is the subject of this post.

My friend's kids are 10 and 6 years old, bilingual (French and English). The family's thinking about relocating for good, but would also prefer, if possible, to have some insurance (if they dislike life here so much that they decide to go back in a few years) in terms of kids keeping their English and learning more. The current discussion is focused on choice between Champittet and a public school in a good neighborhood. My friend does not consider international schools, she thinks that many students there are transitory.

Ok, here is my understanding of the pros and cons for private vs public school:

Location:

Public schools win. They are everywhere, including nice places, kids can just walk to school with their friends vs. being driven every day by an adult.

Time management:

Public schools have very unusual and very inconvenient (from the point of view of working parents) lunch break from 11:30am to 2 pm. The school ends before 4pm. Very few public schools have any facilities for the students to stay at school during the break. Full time jobs for both parents are out of question without additional help.

Private schools almost always have their students full time from 8am to 3 pm, and often full day until 5-6pm.

Private schools seem to be winning, yet there are a couple of things that we have to keep in mind. First, for 1/4 of a calendar year kids do not go to school at all, so that time is a problem for parents of either private or public schools' students. Second, tuition fee per student in a private school is 15K-25K+. Parents can send their kids to public school but find an au pair to take care of the lunch break and early home coming for kids. It seems especially better financially for the families with many kids. So there is no clear winner in this category.

Money: public schools win almost always :-)) They are free (almost) !!!

Diplomas:

Swiss schools usually provide only Swiss maturite (?), private schools have all the spectrum from IB to British degrees, etc. This is might be the main advantage of private schools. I do not know how difficult is to apply (and be admitted to Oxford, say, or Yale, when one has Swiss maturite vs IB.

Classmates:

I would assume that a public school in a nice area w/out many low-income housing would have majority of Swiss kids + some reasonable fraction of foreigners. Not that I have something against low income housing, although I certainly do not like bad areas. Anyway, only nice areas are under consideration. Most of the Swiss kids could be expected to stay in the school in the future, this is really good for someone who wants to settle down, so their kids get friends possibly for life.

Private schools aka Champittet: I do not know much about them. Champittet has been purely French school until recently, so it could not have many English-speaking expat children. The tuition is quite high, so it could be posh and snobbery. My take would be that Champittet has kids of prosperous Swiss who could afford 25K tuition and like the school for the status, networking opps and, perhaps, quality of the education there. My friend does not care much about status, would really prefer something not posh, but certainly wants all the educational things possible.

So here we finally come to the most important point. It is also where I am confused the most.

Quality of teaching:

I assume for the ease of presentation (:-)) that the initial IQs of kids that go to public and private schools are the same.

Public schools, as I understand, provide fairly solid education. My kids thrive in public school, even without French. They loved it from the first day and would go there even on weekends, if they could. But they are still small and this is my biased idiosyncratic experience.

At some point (5th or 6th grade, not relevant for me now, but very important for my friend, her son is 10) public school splits into gymnasium track and non-gymnasium. Let's call these two groups of students pubA and pubB, pubA going to gymnasium to get Swiss maturite and later go an university. If your kids made it to pubA, then she/he is OK. For kids who did not make it into pubA the road is less clear. If their parents are ambitious and can afford it, they will direct the kids, yes!, to private school to get maturite anyway.

Private school: until some pubB come, the contingent of the private school should not be very different from the public school (we agreed they have the same original mixture of IQs). Perhaps, because kids spend more time at school, have smaller classes and more attention from the teachers, their education by year 5 could be better than in public school. Suppose that their level on average is higher than pubA, and if they had the same separation procedure as in public schools, only the bottom third would not make it to the gymnasium. Let's call them privB. The thing is that in the following years, privB do not study separately from privA, the classes in private schools will still have privB together with privA, and also some pub. So although privA could be better than pubA, overall class level in private schools might be well lower than pubA.

Unless, of course, the difference in teaching level in public and private schools is such tremendous that all of the students in private schools are becoming completely brilliant by year 5th and would make it to the gymnasium (and university) even in public school. Then why don’t they all go to public schools and save money?

Miss Kitty

PS Those who made it to the end of my note, thank you very much for your patience! If you have any comments, or can point to any important factors that I’ve missed or just explain to me what I did not understand about schools in Switzerland, you will be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

Now as I went thought the Swiss education system and I founded a private school a couple of years ago I think also about the pros and cons about the Swiss system and international systems.

It is indeed a good question sending children to public school or to private schools and even I do not have children I would consider sending them to a private school.

The fact that only about 10% of students are going the direct way reaching the Matura and have the opportunity for an entry into a university which is accredited international is from my point of view the problem. Most other will go the way by the vocational training. If they want an international accredited degree they will have to do the “Berufsmatura” or the adult Matura to reach an international accredited degree. Going this way costs time and money as it is not really financial supported by the community. I do think that our system of vocational training is a good way in preparation of young adults for the job market. The problem is that it is not international accredited. So young professional with e.g. a vocational training as a business clerk (KV Abschluss) will probably have a similar education level as a High School Graduate in the USA. But he/she will in most case not be accepted with this certificate for an entry into a College or a University around the world. (That’s one reason why we offer a preparation course for the US GED test at awewa)

Expats children do also focus on an additional problem. Mostly they first have to learn the language of the country to follow the context of the education instruction. If children comes young to Switzerland and have time during the primary school to learn the language and are prepared for the test for the higher schools (Real, Oberschule, Sekundarschule, Bezirksschule, Matura) they will have the seam chance like all other children at the seam age. But if they come to Switzerland close to the change or after it they will have problems because of the language problem to reach the higher level like Bezirksschule or Matura as the instruction is not in his/her native language also for topics like mathematics, science a.s.o.

Take a look at the threads, where this has been discussed in detail:

" International school or Swiss schools "

" Schooling options " - scroll down through this thread to find Nathu's links to even more threads.

Thank you, Crumbs and Roman for your input. I reread the links Crumbs directed me to, but I still cannot figure out what is really different between Swiss public and private schools. I am not talking about any international schools that were subject of the majority of the discussions. Is it true that majority of the students in Swiss private schools are the ones who did not do well in the public domain, as one of the forum members suggested somewhere? It is a bit hard to believe because I know that many people from EPFL, Swiss and foreginers, send their kids to Champittet, and I suspect that the kids are mostly normal bright kids, plus they start at kindergarten.

So what exactly parents value so much in private Swiss schools that they are ready to pay 25K a year when the option of free public school is always present - it is academic quality, flexibility in attendance, after-school activities? Or networking?

Thanks again,

Miss Kitty

Perhaps their employer pays for all or some of the school fees.

"Perhaps their employer pays for all or some of the school fees. "

Hmmm... Suppose the employer covers the cost. Why is a private school better? It's not always that the more it costs the better it is (although it happens often :-))

I am trying to figure out what exactly is better.

Miss Kitty

I know of a kid who is really bright who just could not pass the exams to get into the Gymnasium to do his Matura. He is now in a private school doing a Berufsmatura and is doing really well. His take on the story is that when he was at public school (in a village where there were many farms), many of his friends were not interested in studying and had no intention or ambition of trying to get a Matura. Therefore, studying hard would have been geeky and uncool. Now he is with likeminded kids it is not a problem. It was an expensive lesson for his parents to learn, but environment is important. In a village or town which is fairly affluent or where there are a fair number of people working for more high-tech companies, perhaps there are more ambitious children (and parents), thereby creating a better environment for children who are interested in doing more than helping out on the farm. (An exaggeration perhaps, but you get my drift no doubt).

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For info, and it was some time ago ( ) I did a Swiss Maturite at a public school in Geneva and was accepted into 5 of the 6 universities in the UK that I applied for. The only one that turned me down was Cambridge, and I was told that competition was fairly intense....

I'm not familiar with anyone choosing a 'private' school other than for curriculum content or work schedule...

For that reason International schools (offering education in, for example, English), or French schools (following french curriculum), or IB schools (International Baccalaureate - a curriculum, I believe).

Why else would you 'choose' a private school ? - maybe it offers subjects that are not available at your local government school ?

In Switzerland, 'private' schools do not receive government funding, so the fees have to cover 100% of the budget.

Are there church schools here ? - I haven't noticed any in Zurich...those are common in Australia - mostly Roman Catholic, they get government funding as well as church funds and parent fees in Australia...

I can't think of any other reason why you'd choose 'private' - it'd have to be offering something substantially different to the local government-run school, or else how would they attract enrolments ? - or justify the cost to parents ?

We are in Montessori schooling - but that is because we like the educational method, and our kids could move relatively 'seamlessly' from Australia to Europe and their teachers have training that we specifically looked for...

Given the high fees of private schools, I'd say the demographics of the children will be different generally from the mixture in your local government school - but that doesn't necessarily mean the school itself is going to be better, nor that individual children will do 'better' in one or the other - some would say better to be the 'smart' kid amongst the 'average' ??? - and of course, we could argue that money doesn't necessarily equal 'smart' - and schooling doesn't equal 'intelligence'...

I think you've asked an interesting question, opened an enormous can of worms, but at the end of the day, the persons location, work location, budget, lifestyle and children's ages and priorities will determine the exact choices available (where will they work, where will they live, what schools are within a reasonable distance)...then you have to narrow down the individual schools that look appropriate, and go and visit them - *please* make sure your friend goes and visits the school - and meets some staff and students - and then to actually make the decision it is not simply a 'government' vs 'private' debate anyway - the local private school might be really crappy, and the government school fabulous, or vice-versa...of course!

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At a private school, their children get to hang out with other little Ruedis and Katharinas, and not so many Sulejmans and Gorans.

These things matter to some people.

At an international school kids get to mix with so many cultures, they learn to be open minded and respectful towards varied beliefs and philosophies.

One other issue with private schools is that their catchment area is generally much larger than a public school. When children are young especially this poses a problem with friends getting together spontaneously. It is a bit more difficult to go "next door" and ring the bell, when the friend actually lives 5-10km away.

Well, I am becoming more and more curious. What have started just as mostly mental exercise to find reasons why people put their kids into private schools has developed into a real puzzle.

In other countries, UK and US are the easiest examples, often people have no option not to go private because their public schools (even in nice areas) are really really bad. Here on the other hand, nice areas for sure have good public schools (no kids from downtown LA driven everyday to Beverly Hills), so to pay 25K a year just for a privilege of not having occasional and rare dark-skinned kid next to yours feels strange, to say the least. And while I do agree that there are tons of personal circumstances and problems that might require non-standard solution, there is still no clarity for me what is the main reason to go private here, in Switzerland. If it is just time arrangement, than the public system can wipe the whole industry in one broad stroke by organizing after-school classes or supervision :-)) If it is academic rigor, what about all this kids added after the 6th grade who did not make it to mature in public schools?

I've heard than many kids from EPFL go to Champittet from the tender age of kindergarten. If anyone from EPFL reads this forum, could you please share your experience?

Thanks to everyone,

Kitty

Had it not been for the rare dark-skinned (Indian mother) bi-lingual German-English lad sitting next to our son when we first got here I doubt he would have made as much progress as he did.....

With the exception of subjects taught and final qualification options...

Given you can relocate to the catchment area a really good government funded school.

Someone once summed up the difference nicely:

At a private school if your child decides to be lazy, the teachers are being paid to motivate them. (The actual expression I prefer is not politically correct).

T

We have just had our child accepted to Champittet. Main reasons we chose this school are; Employer paying the fees (yes, they are astronomical...my husbands US university degree cost less per year) We are probably going to move in the next few years (looking to buy a house) so our child would have to change schools if she went local as we would not buy in the area where we currently live (can't afford it!). We like the curriculum, especially the fact that Champittet now incorporates English. We wanted a primarily French speaking education but know our children would need extra English tuition if at local school. Champittet now has both. Child stays at school all day which means I have the opportunity to go to work without having to arrange for someone to collect my child at lunch time, feed them, then take them back to school. The private schools are much more parent friendly for families with two working parents. I've stayed at home while my kids were young but would like to go back to work once they start school. We visited the three major private schools in Lausanne and liked them all. Champittet just happened to be the one that most fit with what we wanted for our child. But the bottom line is that without an employer willing to pay, we would have been just as happy for our children to go to a good local school. It just would have been a little harder to arrange our life around.

In regard to the "posh" factor at Champittet, this does worry me but I am reserving judgement until our child starts and see for ourselves what it is like. I did a search here on English Forum about Champittet when we were applying and found no threads where the parent actually had a child at the school. A few people without children there did mention the "posh" kid issue so I don't know for sure that this is even a problem...yet.

I speak as a mother whose children (now adults) attended both private and pubic schools here.

If you have a good public Swiss school, and a well-balanced, intelligent child, things might just work out. However, it should be remembered that Swiss schools do not allow for any "straying from the general path"; any situation which does not meet with the norm is your problem, not the school's.

Only 25% of students sit the Maturité; a large number of public school students usually do not have the "competence" to follow further education, and will take up apprenticeships. In addition, the Maturité standards for public school students are lower than those from private schools, where students are obliged to sit a Maturité Federale.

International/private students receive a more "rounded" education, and generally speaking, are better equipped to take their place in both the private and professional spheres in later years.

I think that the main consideration is whether or not your friends intend staying in Switzerland permanently. If so, I would say a good private education in French with a Maturité at the end or, at the limit, an IB would be the best option.

Personally and as a parent I feel that most of it depends on the families financial status. If the money is there, most parents would opt for private and find all reasons to support that decision. Sadly if money is absent then, well we know the rest

And yes I know that Money can't buy happiness -- but

somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.