My son will be graduating from primary school next summer, and his teachers invited me to talk about which school he should go. Based on his performance in fifth grade, he's slightly under the bar of SEK so they suggest he should go to REAL schule. From what I understand, REAL teaches the same subjects and material, but the scope is smaller compared to SEK. Also the teacher-student ratio is higher, so in general teachers have more bandwidth to help with students.
I asked my son's opinions. He said he would rather be a "good" student in REAL than the "bad" (ranking) student in SEK. He said REAL sounds good to him and might be an ideal choice.
I graduated from one of the top-notch universities in a different country and so do most of my colleagues. Most of them (strongly) hope their children to go for Gymnasium, which are based on three reasons. First, that's the world they (or I) understand the most, it's easy to share our experience and we know how to assist them in that world. Secondly, apprentice might be a well-accepted and encouraged system in Switzerland, but other people in different countries may not understand it well and could sometimes discriminate against it. Thirdly, people in my circles usually believe people should leave their comfort zones and sometimes, "a little" pressure is beneficial.
Besides, I read from newspapers that many of the opening positions in Switzerland are "invisible" to job applicants. You couldn't find it in any public media unless you have a connection to that company and someone from inside discloses that information to you. This is probably a bad news for an expat like us, as I don't know anyone except my neighbors and colleagues here.
Another story that I heard from a friend. They said their kids' school have serious drugs issues. Their kids were bullied at school because they didn't participate them to enjoy the wonder land of drugs. The situations were much improved after their kids started Gymnasium as most students there are more "aligned" with life philosophy and similar family background etc. They told me not to be naive about Swiss system.
On the one hand I want my kids to study happily and find his own pace in school, on the other hand this is indeed a different culture and social system. I'm in a dilemma and would appreciate for your insights and experience on this.
It is true that there are special/extra staff at REAL schule. It depends so much on your child and the individual school whether drugs etc will come into the picture. My kids have been around other kids who have access to drugs, but they aren't interested in taking them... and so far haven't give in to peer pressure.
What is your son interested in - does he have sport, music, creative persuits that give him a passion and a social network outside of school ?
I sympathise - we also were of the mindset of kids going to university as an inevitable part of life. However, now we appreciate how the Swiss system works, it really isn't so bad.
My daughter was in Real after primary. She consistently got high marks, and three months later was in Sek. From Sek, she went to Gymnasium (a kid from Real in Gym? ), but after two years she quit and started an apprenticeship as a Chemical Technician at Roche. She is now studying for her Berufsmatura. Her plan is to go the Fachhochschule next year and study mechatronics and thereafter do a masters in aeronautical engineering at a university.
My other daughter went from Sek to FMS, only to drop out a month before final exams - with our full support. A year later she started a course with the Open University . Last Saturday she graduated with a BA(Hons) . OU degrees are as well recognised as degrees from any UK university.
The point is, it doesn't matter too much which stream your child is in, there's enough flexibility to do whatever they want if they've got the motivation.
I could not agree more. The most important thing is that they are happy in themselves and what they do.
My daughter decided that she wanted to do an apprenticeship because as she said: "I'm not a head person". Now it seems she has decided that she is a "head person" after all and has decided to do the Berufsmatura at the same time.
I am not sure if that is still the case so better check quickly but I think that it is possible for children to switch from Real to Sek after year one, year two or year three. Maybe that would be an option. When I went to Sek it was possible and we always had children coming up from Real. They usually had to redo the year (so switched from Real year two to Sek year two) but because of that never had a problem. It might be easier to find an apprenticeship from Sek so if possible I would aim at finishing at Sek level. Once he has found an apprenticeship he can either do the Berufsmatura at the same time or (that is easier) in a one year class after the end of the apprenticeship. The Berufsmatura gives him access to a University of Applied Sciences where he can get a Bachelor. Later on if he wants to he can either do a Master there or swap to University to do a Master (possible for some studies) or a Bachelor.
Long Story short: don't fret too much now! The system is "permeable" on purpose. So while it might not be the quickest route. It is well possible to go from Real to University.
Make sure you stay involved in his life, show an interest in School and his friends/hobbies etc., try to make sure he studies and let him socialise a lot at your home with friends. That way you will know who his friends are and they are in a safe environment. Might help to not let him fall for the "wrong" crowd. Worked for us when we were Teenagers
The most important thing is, that your child is in the stream where he can best develop and learn. Your son is right, struggling in sek would not be pleasant. The beauty of the Swiss system is that there are tons of possibilities. If one starts of in Real it may take a year or two longer to reach university. But it is absolutely doable. And that extra year or two will be full of other important life experiences. Going to Sek does not guarantee an entrance into Gymnasium or the choice of apprenticeships. My son did go to Sek, but had soso marks (4.5 average). He ended up choosing an apprenticeship that mostly kids with Real choose. But he is very happy, at the top of his class and will do Berufsmatura after. He plans to study I.T. at Fachhochschule later.
As far as drugs go, most schools have both Sek and Real classes in one building. ( At least where I live) And my daughter found the amount of kids smoking in Gymnasium astounding when she visited there last year .
I thought it happens at end of semester. Can students move between Sek/Real in the middle of a semester?
Did she find the apprenticeship on her own or someone has to refer her from Roche? Does it work like applying for a job and every student not in Gymnasium stream needs to apply for it? Could it be possible that some students couldn't find any apprenticeship and in that case, can they still get Berufsmatura?
If he would just barely make it into Sek, he will go nowhere near Gymnasium at this point. If he's more comfortable going to Real, then that's where he should go.
I've said this here many times and will repeat it till the end of my days: no one is doomed here by their first choice of school (or the best option at that given time). You can't compare the Swiss system to those in many or most other countries, it works differently. There is sufficient flexibility and room for mobility into Sek later and some FH or other, where people walk away with the same title as they would from a university and can sell it as that ex-Switzerland (though it's theoretically not the same, but let's leave that for another day). Personally I haven't seen anyone progress from Real to Gymnasium, and that's most definitely the exception, but to move from Real to Sek is very normal and frequent.
The people I have seen fail, often time and time again, are those that were pushed into something there were either not ready or simply not smart enough for. I've seen dramatic cases of parents pushing their children either into Sek or, worse yet, Gymnasium, only to see them literally fail for good (after being carried for years) half a year before graduating. Some get their act together, some don't, some have the general abilities and just need extra time, others don't. The system here can be brutal in places in that filtering is significant - I've hardly ever seen that work against anyone though, long-term that is.
So bottom line: don't push him into Sek at this point.
This! Yes! If he doesn't have friends yet, encourage him to invite one or two over at a time. Do something like make pancakes or popcorn, and then stay out of their way. Aim to make your home the coolest place to be, for all his friends. And safest.
Whether kids can move mid Semester or end of Semester depends on the canton and school policy. If it is obvious to the teachers a child is in the wrong level right from start, then switching mid year is possible, although not common.
Finding apprenticeships is up to the student and their parents. It does work like applying for a job, although often companies prefer kids that have done a Schnupperlehre (a trial of 1-3 days) with them. Or they will ask them to come for a trial after they apply. Knowing someone in the company can help, but it is not necessary. There are Websites called LENA (Lehrstellennachweis) that list open apprenticeship positions.
Well, you know how things vary from canton to canton...
Her primary teacher insisted that she should go to real. We did not agree with him, but for various reasons, went along with it. It was clear very early on to the teachers at Real that she was in the wrong level, so it was in her best interests to move up asap.
When she started at SEK, her classmates who'd been in primary insisted on going round with her to her former primary teacher to demonstrate his error. (He was an idiot - I could list things...
It's like applying for a job. No-one has to do it. Some apprenticeships are harder to get than others.
If you don't perform, you're out. One lad got thrown out in his third and final year after failing a drugs test after he'd was caught smoking dope.
My daughter got her place through her own merits. Not through any contacts.
Where we are, we have the FMS stream - not as academic as Gym, the student has to do a internship. Then they get an FM matura, which is equivalent to a Berufsmatura.
I think a BM must be connected to an apprenticeship. but I don't know. There are other schools they can go to - FMS etc - if they don't get to gym or don't want to (or can't get) an apprenticeship.
Some kids do their apprenticeship in one subject then go off and do something else. Or even another apprenticeship. I know one guy who did an IT apprenticeship and is now studying to be a social worker.