RAV and early retirement (with pension)

If your company terminates your position and offers you early retirement do you still get RAV?

Note: Pension payment can not be deferred, you have to start taking your pension once you leave the company.

In other words, if you receive money from your pension fund, are unemployed, and under 65 years old, will you get payment from RAV?

I doubt that as RAV is an insurance with the idea to get you back in a job. When you retire you don ́t.

But then ask RAV? You can continue working also after retirement.

I want to work. In reality I was let go (early retirement is what it is called if you are fired after the age of 58). I do not want to start drawing from my pension, but I have to (as part of the "early retirement" package). What I get from my pension is not enough to survive on.

Ah ok, misunderstood you.

Blick covered this topic (translated):

"I am 61 years old. Our company had to make massive job cuts. Mine too. But I have the advantage of taking early retirement. Can I still register with the unemployment insurance fund, because I would like to earn some extra money.

Were you forced to take early retirement or was it your own decision?

This is the first question that the regional employment agency (RAV) will ask you. Because depending on this, you may receive unemployment compensation. If you chose to take early retirement rather than resign, you will receive nothing. The fund will argue that you have decided to retire and will therefore not pay any daily allowances.

The situation is different if you were forced to retire. There are many pension funds that force their members to retire from the age of 58. Employers take advantage of this and retire their employees early so that they have to make fewer redundancies."

https://www.blick.ch/life/geld/der-h…n-id20901.html

Well if you want to work then look for a job.

Depending on your skills and experience you may get a job that is better paid than you were or worse. You can maintain your standard of living with a salary that is not lower than the difference between your old salary and your pension.

Alternatively, depending on your personal circumstances you could consider returning to your home country or somewhere like Thailand that has a lower cost of living.

I have often heard stories of early retired people who returned to work for their old company on a freelance basis because they could not find a suitably experienced replacement.

That is what I have been doing. My German is poor, so need to find English speaking job.

I find "go home" or move to Thailand not to be very helpful advice.

You do not have to take what your company is offering or? Can also refuse the deal and be "fired" normally and then look for a job whilst being on RAV?

A company cannot force you to go on early retirement as far as I know

I can, but then I loose the "retirement package" i.e the company pays into the pension fund the missing years until I am 65. That is not as good as it sounds, as taking pension early results in a huge cut - around 30% less monthly compared to if I would start taking a pension at 65.

I have a meeting with RAV in two weeks and will confirm what has already been said here i.e. I will get a payment from RAV. I assume my pension will be subtracted from that amount.

Yes you can do this. I know people who have done exactly this. They were retired by the company who paid them their pillar 2 pension up to retirement age and they also went on RAV. But they also ended up finding jobs.

i guess worst case you get unemployment benefit but with the delay associated with voluntary resignation. if your choice was take the early retirement or get fired and get no package, i'd argue it wasn't really voluntary.

i don't see why you would deduct pension from RAV payment.

If you do not take retirement, but get fired, then the pot (in German, called Freizügigkeitsleistungen) is supposed to be paid into the pension scheme of your next employer. Alternatively, it can be paid into the government mandated Foundation known rather clumsily as Die Stiftung Auffangeinrichtung BVG La Fondation institution supplétive LPP The Substitute Occupational Benefit Institution. https://aeis.ch/einzelperson/fzk-freizuegigkeitskonto
Im Auftrag des Bundes schliessen wir Lücken im System der zweiten Säule – damit alle in der beruflichen Vorsorge abgesichert sind. Die Stiftung Auffangeinrichtung BVG ist eine Non-Profit-Organisation mit einem wichtigen Auftrag des Bundes: Wir versichern alle anschlusswilligen Arbeitgebenden und Einzelpersonen in der obligatorischen beruflichen Vorsorge (BVG) – als einzige Vorsorgeeinrichtung der Schweiz.

Sur mandat de la Confédération, nous comblons les lacunes du système du deuxième pilier - afin que chacun soit couvert par la prévoyance professionnelle. La Fondation institution supplétive LPP est une organisation à but non lucratif investie d’un mandat formel de la Confédération : nous assurons tous les employeurs et particuliers souhaitant s’affilier dans la prévoyance professionnelle obligatoire (LPP) et sommes la seule institution de prévoyance en Suisse à le faire.

On behalf of the federal government, we fill gaps in the second pillar system – so that everyone is covered by the occupational benefit scheme. The Substitute Occupational Benefit Institution is a non-profit organisation with an elementary mandate from the Swiss Confederation: We insure all employers and individuals who wish to join the mandatory occupational benefits scheme (BVG/LPP) – as the only occupational benefits institution in Switzerland.
Their benefits are unlikely to be superb, but it’d probably be worth your while asking for their rules or calculations to see whether, by paying in to that foundation from the date of your dismissal up until your regular date of retirement, you’d be able to get a pension with less of a cut than your currently anticipated 30%.

I thought that the recent law, allowing you to choose to stay with the current pension fund when you leave job at >= 58 was exactly for that. You should be allowed to keep your current 2nd pillar, so why delaying retirement is not possible?

There are two different elements here RAV providing the job search service and supervision of the unemployments benefit payments paid via the arbeitslosenkasse.

There is a form that has to be completed by the employer when you register for benefits and on that form the employer will indicate that you took early retirement, which in turn will lead to additional questions which will be used to decide if you are entitled to any benefits.

So far of the five or six people I know who did this, none got benefits but all qualified for job search services.

Does you early retirement package not include a supplemental payment to cover the first pillar pension until such time as the state one kicks in? Everyone I know that took early retirement got this.

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Yes, I can get supplemental payments to cover first pillar, but the combined amount will be less than 40% of my current monthly salary.

It is starting to sound like being fired is a better option than taking the early retirement package.

Well at 40% it does not sound like you are in a financiual position that you can afford it. Presumable you are not intending to stay in Switzerland after retirement and if so you should look into what the total payout would be if you were retire and then take a payout rather than pension on exiting the country.

I have been in Switzerland for 25 years, own property, and my country of origin is almost as expensive as Switzerland - so the idea is to stick around.

I assume I will get full pillar 1 (by moving time employed in another EU country to make up the full 44 years), so that is max CHF 2500.- (more once the wife retires) and my pension will be around CHF 3000.-, totaling max CHF 5500.-

My original question was in regards to if RAV would top that up to 80% of my current salary.

I know this may sound like a first world problem, but we live in a first world country.

In short, NO.

Once you are retired, the ALS no longer pays you anything.

RAV NEVER pays you anything, just make you to paperwork and stuff.

Tom

Be careful that calculation does not work the way you think! Apply for an estimate of your entitlement. With 25/44 years it is very unlikely that your monthly payment will be the Swiss max., unless the max payment in your home country is the same as Switzerland.