Recruiters who don't respond to applicants. Common?

[Rpkalap]

Actually it would make a difference to me. They have posted a job in a high volume public place - the internet - and so should expect responses. The very least I expect from a HR department is to be prepared to have a 'standard' rejection. No HR department then sure, it can take time to do this. I completely accept the current economic conditions, the competitiveness of the job market etc, the volume of CV's being received and I can handle rejection. But like others I put in a lot of work applying for jobs - a little courtesy, however fake or routine or standard, actually would make a difference. Of course I resign myself to my cup of tea realising that this is the way of the world but feeling marginally better that I have got it off my chest. So thanks for the opportunity to let me get all snarly and disappointed and high minded about it all.

Maybe I am not seeing the funny side - but as I said in my post I am only applying for jobs that I do clearly meet the criteria for. I have actually gone out of my way to be 'realistic' and have not at all adopted a 'fling in an application for the hell of it' way of doing things. However, you have got me to thinking that this is a strategy of revenge on the companies who are clearly mannerless.....hmmmm ....

I've had a thought......maybe a naming and shaming post.....hmmmm. Only joking - not that bitter yet. So here goes another application ....fingers crossed and I'll consider it a success if I get a response, hell I might even pretend I actually got the job.

NO! Surely not and not in my previous part of the world of sunny Scotland. I don't think I have ever been ignored completely when applying for a job before - never mind numerous time. Maybe I have been too lucky in the past. Maybe the world has had a tectonic shift since my last foray into this game 9 years ago. Maybe I am old and unrealistic. Maybe I need to go home. Maybe no-one appreciates my talents anymore.......... oh my god maybe my talents are no longer required.....

[prillerem]

You have a very different perspective to me on this. Following this logic then a shop assistant has no reason to reply to the question 'Do you have this in a size 36?' if they do not as the customer can assume from the silence that they do not whereas to open their mouth in response might lead the customer to "get their hopes up." If a restaurant does not have a second bottle of the same wine then the sommelier need not say anything when asked...

Communication can surely be better than silence. I maintain that if someone has shown a genuine interest in working for you and taken the time and effort to formulate a professional application letter then this deserves a response - simply good manners.

Finally, to assume a no after 10 days may be to do yourself a disservice. In all honesty I once received an invite to interview at a place I really wanted to work 4 months after posting the application. The manager was honest enough to admit (this was not in Switzerland I might add) that she had messed up and misplaced my letter and just found it in a pile of papers and that she would like to meet for an interview - this lead to a good 3 year working relationship.

[Rpkalap]

I hear what you are saying but I put a second's worth of effort into a lottery ticket & it's completley contactless, no contact details given. My main beef realli that these recruiters are 'asking' qualified people to apply and they wish them to do so with a quality that reflects themselves the the job in question but don't show the same respect. I know ....i'm sounding bitter now. Top tip re the lottery though. I need to get playing and then I can write to them all saying 'shove your job cos I won the lottery ha ha!' Thanks for the luck - I really am going to need it at this rate.

[juhamariel_baxley]

How about anyone with polite rejection responses from an agency could share those agency names? Most of my applications have gone ignored also... My partner had a positive response from one after 30 days. hmm.

When a recruiter website forces me to create an account, password, and copy half the details that are clear in my CV to their own input forms, its a little annoying.

That those firms cannot have a simple one-click rejection process on their end when they have looked at my profile, to send me an automated rejection email, is infuriating.

What I could really use is a few more hints with each rejection so I can get a better idea what is going wrong - my CV format not clear enough? my cover letter not unique enough, or simply they whether they asked for good german, or good skill XYZ and got enough other applicants claiming fluent german/XYZ that they will ignore my profile.

[bobbin]

From my experience the recruitment companies are really good at contacting me via phone and email, convincing me to go for interviews I'm not really interested in, nor suitable for. After the interview I hear nothing from them. No feedback from the interview or other opportunities that they may have for me, that I find frustrating.

[izzarranredea_lein]

Much as everyone would like to be treated with courtesy and respect, we have to accept the current work environment in general and the employment scenario in particular, not only in Switzerland but around the world. Everything now is extremely cut throat, with each one protecting her/his own territory and interests. Its impossible to even get your own colleagues within the same organisation to respond to your mails. The reaction or response comes only if its important to them. It all depends on whose project, your position etc. So, imagine the HR people being concerned about applicants from outside.

I have had so many negative experiences in the past when I was forced to look for a job here in CH that I realised that if I kept expecting decency or even common courtesy, it was going to be only I making myself miserable and more miserable. I started doing what was in my hands (i.e preparing and sending the best possible application). I would call, follow up and mostly meet a wall or be rebuffed rudely. The fact that I was a foreigner only made it worse. But then, thats the nature of beast. Let's not pretend its going to be any different, especially in these times when there is so much competition for every single vacancy. To be fair, the recruiters from other countries were also no better.

[nickatbasel]

Put it this way...I have been involved in the selection process for new employees at places I have worked. If a CV turns up from an agent who has messed me about in the past it goes straight in the bin. That includes phoning me on the pretext of having a job for me - and it turns out to be a fishing trip. Also not responding when I put my CV in with them.

The best way to get at an agent is via their commission.

Cheers,

Nick

[jesupe]

I feel obliged to point out it's not just Switzerland that's guilty here - not hearing back from a company/agent is fairly standard in the UK as well.

Agents might be slightly better - they have an interest in keeping you onside in case another job shows up, but lets face it, your average HR department has no such concerns.

[rockenda]

Funnily enough I have had the opposite experience. I have found that where the hiring company posts the job ad and invites applications directly, I have received responses in 99% of cases, while agencies have been less responsive.

I can think of a couple of reasons for this: I am probably more motivated when I know which company I am applying to; my CV and motivation letter are more focused and therefore more likely to draw a response. Possibly also, companies who have mandated agencies to do the filtering for them are not aware of the fact that the agencies aren't bothering to reply to unsuccessful candidates.

[zurichasuler]

I would agree with both of these points. I have not applied for many jobs in Switzerland (single digits), some through recruiters but most direct, and got a response from about half of them - some yes, some no, but often a good month or two after I applied even when it was to invite me to interview.

I don't particularly mind getting no response at all to the initial application, though I do think it's a little rude not to and it would be helpful to know whether no response is a no or just taking a long time to process.

What I do dislike intensely is no response after an interview. When both sides have taken time, effort, and sometimes expense to meet face to face, I think it is not only rude but highly unprofessional not to inform the interviewee of the outcome, even if it is just a simple one line email saying thank-you but that they have decided on another applicant. I find it inconceivable that having spent time reviewing the application and then to meet that a person cannot find a minute to do this or ask their assistant to.

I think it is also very short-sighted of anyone conducting a recruitment process to behave like this. As others have said, contacts and reputation are crucial these days and someone is is 'just' a job applicant today might well be a client, colleague, or potential employer in the future.

[Rpkalap]

Admire your honesty but worry for your integrity there Nick Is that not biting off your nose to spite your face - or something like that. Why not just address your concerns/gripes to the agent on a business to business basis rather than losing out on what might be fab candidates - like me ? !! They need you more than you need them so they should shape up quickly. For me I have not yet gone through an agency but will be sure to ask any if they deal with a Nick in Basel

[Jaslavencey]

Sadly its true.. I have applied to countless jobs that I am perfectly qualified for and hear back from probably about 7% of them and of those only 2 or 3 times has it been something other than a cut and paste generic rejection.

I've recently had one where I matched the profile exactly, even holding the exact same job (same title even) at a very similar company and I was rejected with a blanket form letter 1.5 months later. I don't know if its becuase I am non-EU (but have a B permit) or more likely I think many companies have someone in mind but are required per policy to advertise and don't even bother reading the application.

[boosaz]

Well, get used also for the "after a carefull examination of your profile" and that "you are overqualified"

[Texanaguiza]

Hi there,

I am right now job hunting on the other side of the world and all I can tell you is that it isn't a Swiss thing:

- In Switzerland were 80% of all recruitment agencies a complete waste of time. Most didn't reply, but some who did were actually worse: Pure CV pusher without any insight into their customers (let alone a mandate...).

- In Singapore are... ta da... 80% the exact same waste of time.

Honestly: There are a few very professional agencies, but they get completely swamped with CVs, the rest is just unprofessional. Companies have by now at least in my industry switched to those ridiculous Taleo systems - it takes every bloody time half an hour to fill out the same stuff that's in my CV... just to be asked to attach the CV as well at the end.

My tips: They get 300 cvs for a good job (or more, Google got a four digit number in their best times), I guess 30 CVs are ok, but there are only five or six spaces in the shortlist. So you actually have to not be in the top ten percent - you need to be in the top TWO percent!

How to make the shortlist: CALL people before you apply and ask a question on the job description. Then add some small talk mentioning the number one thing you'd like them to know about you. This has increased my call back rate dramatically:

a) you seem to be genuinely interested and by calling showed more initiative than the other 299.

b) they heard your name before and when spending the terrible long hours going through that huge pile will remember you when they see your CV.

There are of course another hundred or so pitfalls, so it is impossible to give tips remotely... but I'll try:

- Is your CV in a Swiss format as in "with photo, birth date, marital status and anything else illegal in the US"? Quite simple: if it isn't, you're out.

- A recruiter spends about 7 seconds per CV. Is yours formatted in a way that the recruiter can get the most important info in so a short time?

- My experience is that the first hurdle are usually some VERY junior girls and boys weeding out the best 10-15% before the recruiter then picks his five out of those 30. These very junior kids have no clue about your job - no matter what industry you are in. Make sure you use the EXACT same keywords they use in the job add, otherwise some incompetent teenager kicks you out of the process. Example: I know that an requirements engineer and a business analyst are basically the same. A spotty 16 year old teen in his apprenticeship doesn't.

- Did you attach cover letters with your CV, even if the application system is rubbish? My experience is that it increases the feedback rate a lot.

To be honest have I sent out my CV to some 30 agents and I found ONE really good one among them. She has the right jobs for me, knows her customers, gets me into application processes that were already after the deadline, arranges the interviews and follows up on them. I came to the conclusion that I maybe should try my luck as a headhunter once: It seriously cannot be too hard to perform better than 90% of the market.

[Tomfrank]

This has been a challenge for me to stomach as well. We moved here from the Silicon valley for my wife's new job, but mainly, in order for her to be nearer to her family. I quit my job and felt that with my experiences and language skills I should have no issue obtaining work. I began with language courses, trying to get as good as I could before looking for work, because the area I live in in Eastern Switzerland seems to have far fewer English speaking jobs than in Zurich (unfortunately). I got my working permit recently, and began the search.

Little did I know about the 80% swiss, 20% auslander (out-lander/foreigner) policy. Little did I know that many of the jobs would require being multi-lingual, not merely bi-lingual. Little did I know that I would feel prejudice for being an auslander from those expected to help me. Little did I know...about a lot...mainly of swiss culture, and the best methods of searching for work here. Has been a wake up call.

Thus far, the recruiters have been no help. The RAV (regional Arbeitsvermitlerung), and job postings have provided no good leads. I feel the people I have spoken with don't want to help me because I am American. In one sit-down translated from swiss german: "oh...you are...American. (Looks at floor, puffs breath, thinks to self darn foreigners) Why are you here? We don't get to many Californians here?" Afterwhich we talk about my experiences and what I want to do and I am informed there is really nothing for me. Which I find highly unlikely, but more likely he isn't inclined to put in his effort helping a swiss, rather than taking his time to help a truly hard working American. Your loss bud.

While I continue to remain postive and upbeat, pursuing outdoor activities that will keep my motivation and moral up, the seemingly bleek outlook is a challenge, especially for a guy who with hard work has always had everything come rather easy in regards to finding NEW work. But, that is in a different country and completely different culture.

My swiss friends and German friends have expressed that I must remain diligent and optimistic. They informed me it is common that many submitted CVs/resumes/ application packets are not viewed for months, if at all. One has to call, email, get in contact with who is in charge of hiring for the postion. Go in person. Do whatever it takes, even that which one probably would not have to do in the US to get an interview. Keep an excel file of all interesting jobs with dates of CV submitted, follow-up call/email completed, dates of any email or correspondence, and notes of contact people, and other useful information or things that could help.

While my offical job search only began a few months ago, I have really began thinking outside of the box in ways to stand out. Redone resumes, redone cvs. Had friends review and give comments, afterwhich again revamping. Guess I should have moved over here a fluent German, French, and Italian speaker with a degree in Engineering. Unfortunately I merely have a BS in Business Admin. and German language done through B2. So...the process continues.

I wish you all luck in your searches.

[all_carlies]

Hi

I wish you all the best but really you need to understand that the economic situation is very bad because of the strong franc. Honestly I am Swiss and for me it is extremely difficult too. Maybe it would be easier for you in other areas, probably around lake Geneva and Zurich...

What about starting your own business? You Americans are good at it

[Jilldo]

I don't know where or in what economic climate the OP last looked for work but this is NORMAL, not just for Switzerland but all over Europe and possibly any other areas where its an employers market.

I was out of work for all of 2009, applied for many, many jobs in many, many European countries and I'd say I got about 3-10 official declines, for the rest I got nuthing.

Settle in, it may be a long haul ...is the best advice I can offer.

[Jilldo]

I feel for your situation but seriously if I went to the USA, without citizenship and with less full working rights and and lower than professional fluency in English, what chance would you give me to find work?

You are also moving into a more educationally competitive market than the US...most people have Bachelors and a helluva lot have higher degrees and something like engineering is more respected than arts, (bus admin would be considered more towards the liberal arts scale here). Added to that many people in Switzerland do speak 3 languages fluently. I have only 2 fluent and 2 more at basic level and I feel linguistically challenged here.

You are simply not as marketable here as the US. Sorry if this sounds harsh, it does suck to be out of work and getting little interest from employers .

The fact that you are hardworking means little if you dont have the right experience, qualifications, work visa and language skills for the area you are moving to. I have lived here 6 years and would never expect the government employment agency to help me. Their priority is Swiss people and permit Cs who are out of work. And my impression is that they are more geared to lower education and/or reinsertion of the very long term unemployed. They way I see it - I am a guest in this country, if I want to work then its on me to find work.

Also put yourself in their shoes, you are a government employee in the US charged with US employment and a guy arrives in your office speaking on Polish...you happen to speak a few words but you are fluent in polish...how much time/effort would you really put in with a guy who has just arrived?

[Jumba_K]

Learning German or French will definitely grease the wheels of getting employed.

My German is excellent, but no one believed me because I am

a native English speaker.

I decided to do the Goethe Certificates where I have reached

the highest level. If you plan to live here long-term, it is definitely

worth the investment.

[leophillalo]

while much of what you wrote is true; it also depends on the sort of people reading your CV as well. I sent out CV is a horrible format still got the call for telephone interview, then for onsite one, and finally an offer (this is like a dream job for me).

In the onsite interview, the head of division asked me, at the end of the interview, as to what in the world was I thinking by sending CV in such a format. I replied that it is not the format but the contents which should speak for the person

He agreed

So sometimes as they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder !