required to get US citizenship for child?

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
I am a US/Swiss dual citizen, and my husband is a Kiwi. We have been living in CH for 1 year now. Our youngest daughter was born here last year. She of course has CH citizenship, but we really really really want to avoid getting her US citizenship because of the tax consequences. So we have thus far not registered her.

Some friends in a similar situation recently took their children back to the US for vacation. They were told by 2 people at the embassy that their children are REQUIRED to get US citizenship and thus MUST travel to the US with a US passport. Can they do that? Can they really force citizenship?

I am hesitant to call the embassy, because I don't want to open a can of worms. I was wondering if any other EF-ers have been told something similar. Can we not travel to the US me and my eldest daughter as US citizens, my husband as a Kiwi, and my youngest daughter as a Swiss national?

Thanks!

2
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigra...es_1312.html#6 (though this is for residents, so in your case, it might be slightly different)

I would say that the Embassy is your best resource, though, for the travel questions. I would also say that it would be better to have US citizenship now and renounce it later in life, then for her to want it after she turns 18 and have to jump through a bunch of hoops at that point.

3
Why don't you call them and say "My name is Miller" (provided that it isn't) or have somebody else enquire on your behalf?

4
reading through the embassy's website a little more and the applicable legislation - http://bern.usembassy.gov/birth_abroad.html - http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/S...-0-0-9696.html (point g) - it sounds like, if you (the mother) meet the physical presence in the US test, than your daughter is considered a US citizen already, whether or not you have registered the birth and gotten the passport.

" The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth..."

" (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288) by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and"

5
Thank you all for your advice. Based on the excellent research of anowheels, we resigned ourselves to getting a passport for our little one. I just called the embassy to see how we could do this as quickly as possible (we leave for our holiday in 1 month). The lovely lady there said that even though our daughter is considered a citizen, she is not registered or documented with the embassy/government as such and can thus travel on her Swiss passport. She said that there is no law to force someone to become a citizen, and we cannot be turned away at the airport. Phew! Our littlest one will remain Swiss/Kiwi for now...

6
That's great news, however, try to get this in writing from the embassy. What the law says vs what the random guy at the random border patrol/immigration control at a random airport believes can be different, although they shouldn't. Let's face it - not to demean anyone, but sometimes these guys at the border patrol are not necessarily the smartest cookies in the box, nor the most updated with the regulations, etc. (although they should know better).

I speak for (sad) experience - not your situation, but a situation in which the law said one thing, but the practical experience of people in different airport showed the contrary, and therefore I was strongly advised not to push my luck.

7
Hi TeleMama,

I ́m >>pretty convinced<< that your child possesses US citizenship.

Whether you apply for it or not, doesn ́t matter. Read >>here<< the difference between nationality and passport (which also applies to "applying for citizenship", in your case).

Summary: Whether you do or do not apply doesn ́t matter. Your child is already a US citizen.

However, it ́s not a bug - it ́s a feature: Imagine your child wants to move to the US when she ́s 18 or so... Much easier, if she ́s already a US citizen. And if she doesn ́t want to move there, she can renounce her citizenship at a later stage.

I would apply for the US passport for the "littlest" one, and have her decide what she needs when the time comes.

As for yourself: Can ́t you get yourself out of the tax-obligation by renouncing your US citizenship?

Rgds,

Christian

8

Yes, your daughter is an American citizen. You are and that makes her one also. The law about children born to US citizens outside the US used to apply only to Amercian men many years ago, but it was updated so that it applies to American women as well.

A letter from the Embassy sounds like a good idea, but I’m not entirely sure. The lady told you she is not registered or documented with the embassy/government as such and can thus travel on her Swiss passport. The officials could argue that a letter from the Embassy is proof that she is documented. It’s a difficult one. I can’t see any reason why you or she has to travel on a US rather than Swiss passport unless it’s something to do with the crackdown on tax evasion the IRS is undertaking at present.

If you do decide you want to have her “officially” American then register her birth with the Embassy on your return.

9
I'm suprised by the answer from the Embassy. According to the website about traveling to the US:

Important Notice: According to Section 215 of the U.S Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1185) it is illegal for an American citizen to enter or leave the U.S on anything other than an American document. This applies to dual citizens as well, meaning that persons holding e.g. both Swiss and American citizenships MUST enter and leave the U.S. on a valid U.S. passport; they may NOT enter/leave the U.S. on a Swiss passport. This applies to children as well as adults.

http://bern.usembassy.gov/passport_books.html

I went ahead and got passports for my children, because I thought it would look kind of fishy if I entered the US with my American passport, and my children entered with a Swiss passport. When I talked to the Embassy 5 years ago for my first child, the woman told me it is their right, and therefore not my choice whether or not they have an American passport.

I ended up registering both my children, and they can make the choice to renounce their citizenship if they want to when they are older.

10
Yes, but how will the US know? The US does not keep monitor whether its expat citizens abroad have given birth, unless its reported.

11
I'd imagine that they wouldn't - unless you enter the US on your US passport with your child who is using another passport - that might raise a flag (as seems to have happened to the OP's friend). Also, maybe if you were claiming dependents for tax purposes, but I doubt the various databases are that well connected (yet).

12
Ok will add a few points here as I think some of this discussion is misleading. For more info, may want to search the EF, there was some discussion on this recently, and see the isaac Brock Society, they are heavily in to this type of issue at the moment, http://isaacbrocksociety.ca . More info on citizenship at www.aca.ch , american citizens abroad.

First, if both parents are US citizens, then the child, regardless where born is american. (jurus sangenis) Also through being born on US soil (jurus solis). However, these do not apply in the case of the OP as I understand, as only mother has US citizenship, and born here.

Second, if only one citizen parent, the possiblitiy to gain US citizenship is 'conditional' on proving some facts, ie. in the case of a mother, it has to be shown that she lived an uninterrupted stay, beleive it is one year if not married, and 3 if married, in the US during a certain age range. Same is true for only US citizen father, but different year thresholds apply and the out of wedlock child is different as well.

So what does this mean, it is clear that it if both parents american, child automatically american. For one parent citizen, it is not automatic and until one goes forward and claims and proves citizenship, the child cannot be claimed by american authorties as being american, unless the american authorities prove the conditional criteria. And for me, the last part would be difficult and or impossible for them to do, not to mention unheard of to go to such lengths.

For OP you are not alone in this situation, and many are in a similar situation, I would not worry too much about it and claimuse the citizenship she already holds.

13
There are no longer differences between mother and father (unless out of wedlock) - http://bern.usembassy.gov/birth_abroad.html

http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?o...d=89&Itemid=44

14
If your daughter wasn't born on US (or one of its territories) soil, citizenship isn't an automatic deal. They keep changing the rules so I'd contact someone at the USCIS in DC for some answers if they can't help you in Bern.

15
No, only if you meet the residence qualifications (and can prove them).

Tom