Before I incur the wrath of any overly-defensive parents, this is not a rant about children, nor about parents who do a good job. This is a rant about parents who let their children behave like zoo animals without making even a tiny bit of effort to control them (as I see so often on the bus with kids climbing over seats and the parents just ignoring it).
So, I did a concert yesterday. All the way through, there was a small child sat near the front, screaming his lungs out. Obviously the child wasn't really enjoying it. However, his mother kept him there throughout the whole concert and only took him out just before the last piece. It was an easy place to exit discreetly, and I really don't understand why she didn't take him out before.
It's an attitude I see a lot of in Switzerland, that I haven't seen so much in other countries. I understand completely that she couldn't stop the child crying, so why not take him out? I went to the same concert last year as an audience member and I had horrible Bronchitis. I had a coughing fit, so I went out. It seems like a no-brainer to me, so why is it different for parents? (A reminder that I'm not talking about all parents). There were at least 5 kids squirming, running around, chatting loudly and the parents didn't do anything to keep them still and quiet. I remember going to the ballet and hating it when I was younger, but my mum made me sit still and be quiet!
As a performer in the concert, I found it extremely rude.
You should know by now, that in this country, the child is king and can do no wrong and requires no guidance or reprimand from parents or relatives - who all seem to happily put up with all and any misdemeanour's that the child(ren) choose to commit.
On a personal note, and no way meant as a generalisation, some of the Swiss parents I know seem to have what appears to be an underlying lack of confidence, verging on insecurity. I'm convinced this is something that came from their possible strict upbringing, and are overcompensating by trying their damnedest to ensure the same doesn't happen with their own offspring.
In the Switzerland I have been in for three years it was certainly not like that at all, not even close. Kids are not aloud to make any noise or do what other kids do elsewhere, you know? Being kids?
Your description is more representative of how dogs are treated than kids.
Kids should be kids, I agree, and they will make noise - that's inevitable. But there are times and places. Running around in a public park or garden, sure. But if your kid is screaming at the top of his/her lungs at a concert, you take him/her out. Punkt. That is a no brainer for me, at least.
Spot on. I have difficulties sometimes controlling my child and always my first step is to take him somewhere where he disturbs people the least.
No wrath incurred from this parent when you express yourself in such an understanding way.
This has never, ever been my experience of parenting in CH. UK, yes maybe, but CH .. no. Some days it feels like everyone and their dog has green light to interfere with me and the way I am dealing with my child. The aim being that the child should be seen as little as possible and heard not at all. They are not shy in coming forward to criticise. Which makes Kamarate's situation all the more unusual because I cannot believe there was no one in audience who did not make comments to the mother concerned. I am on the receiving end of enough of them, I can tell you.
I fully agree, the child should have been removed from the concert. I am surprised at how many events which clearly don't suit children allow children to attend. Get a babysitter.
I do also agree that dogs and not kids are king in this country. Mine have more rights than me....well almost.
Well, I don't mind kids being there. I used to go to concerts when I was little and I loved them. I actually think it's one of the reasons I started playing in the first place. So I fully support kids going, but I think sitting about 5 metres from a 40-piece wind band playing loudly is probably not a good idea for a 2-year-old...
Only in a school huddle with high viz do they seem to act under regiment order.
I have become more tolerant of kids being kids but I too liken to my own upbringing where climbing on seats, screaming or merely embarrassing my parents in public was a big no no and you simply did not do it.
I am also not sure how dogs are deemed to have king status, reflecting on another post. Sure they are popular here and tolerant of where they can go, almost limitless, but mandatory theory and practical tests, dog tax, strict cleaning of toilet rules, various no off leash zones and a general behavioral etiquette. Do cats have these obligatory protocols??
I do completly understand you Kamarate ... Maybe it's not the regular experience with other people in this forum, but I also encounter quite a lot of "children are kings" way of thinking. Might be a geographical thing or simply bad luck.
I eat in a Migros Restaurant where children step over the tables with their shoes on, and mothers just giggle and ignore it. When the Migros staff asks politely to get them down (because, you know, people actually eat on those tables) they simply rudely answer "what's the problem? they're just kids!"
I've went to the church where children just start screaming with their little toys while the service is going on, and parents just let them create havoc.
Children will be children, but there are places where you don't simply let your kid go rampage. You take said kid outside as a respect to the other people till he/she calms down.
As a grandmother I am regularly amused at the "tolerance" levels of mothers here.
Watching a mother with a toddler at the playground in summer ...... he filled his spade with sand toddled over to Mum sitting on the bench and threw the sand at her. She "scolded" him ..... he toddled back to the sandpit, loaded his spade again, and returned to throw it at her.
After 3 times, she took his spade away, so he stood there screaming at her, so she gave it back, and he loaded it again and threw it at her. This was allowed to go on and on until he tired of the "game". Mummy just allowed herself to have sand thrown all over her, in her face, hair, clothes.
Must be that kid who was allowed to scream thru your concert?
Maybe it was his older brother who kicked that pensioner till he lost his eyesight?.... because the kid was bored with nothing better to do?
I agree that they should have opportunities to enjoy music etc. However as you said, a 2 year old sitting 5m away is almost traumatic for the kid. It is however up to the parents to then deal with the situation and rather have one of them go further back with the child or outside.
Why not start at the back where the child feels they can escape outside and then work there way forward as the child appreciation for the music grows over the years.
I still feel parents should be responsible for their kids and not everyone around them too. Parents make mistakes and clearly I am sure this couple never thought their 2 year old would freak out. However when it happens, they need to deal with it. It could not have been very enjoyable for the child to stay there either.
About the dog thing: Dogs don't have to go on the courses. They don't pay the taxes, they don't even have to clean up after themselves. It's us the owners. We have to take various course to ensure our dogs have the best care, we have to pay HUGE dog tax bills to ensure their poop is collected weekly in the winter and bi-weekly in the summer from all the gloriously placed poop bins through out CH. The dogs however get to go to some of the most expensive restaurants that children are certainly not allowed to attend. They have free areas set up for them to run free. They are allowed to poop where ever they want as long as we pick it up. When you attend a restaurant with your hound a bowl of water and goodies is whipped out for them to devour while you eat. WHAT, seriously. That sounds like a pretty good life to me.
Just thought, I went to the afro carribean festival earlier this year, and during a musical Interlude, I was chatting to a friend and was quickly scolded and told to hush!!
Not sure if there are varying levels of etiquette depending on type of venue/ concert/festival but I swiftly told the person where to go! Struggling now to decide whether i was in the wrong, but for this type of "event" I am not sure silence is expected.
I'm sorry you had to experience this unacceptable and unsocial behaviour, for any concert goer it is disturbing, as a performer obviously even more.
I've never understood why some parents take kids to concerts when they are not the age to sit absolutely still and silent until the end (just imagine the torture for them...). I can't imagine who can benefit from them. they must learn to hate music and concerts!
I never brought my kids unless they wanted to and were prepared to sit without disturbing all through the concert (or show).
but to answer the other question - NO, not kids but insensitive and impolite people like those parents seem to be king. just about everywhere.
I have seen some odd things here will tolerance levels. Actually so odd that I think I must have missed something. Surely I did not see right. I always think that I was not fully concertrating on themt obe sure I saw right.
However I do think that allowing the 2 year old to cry could be a little harsh.
I know a 2 year old that went to a kinder circus. Animals, clowns, pony rides etc. All geared for young, young kids. You would think he would have loved it and been in his element. His parents thinking he would have a ball. However when really loud music came on he freaked out. However much mom or dad tried to calm him it was no use.
So mom took him out for most of the circus to play outside. I am sure mom was gutted to not be sitting through the circus mind
He was brought back after the pause, but was having nothing to do with it. So he played outside for 3/4 of the circus.
I agree I would have taken my kids out if they would not settle... Many a time it has happened to me as my 2 year old just gets bored especially at the school events have we had to wait outside cause he so loud...I wouldnt take him out to things past his bed time as grumpy normally leads to crying, fidgeting for me anyway, so I would opt for a babysitter. I alway got the impression the swiss kids were little angels though they always seem to stay close and be quiet, if one of mine moans when we go out shopping etc everyone turns round to stare and shake their heads..
Well obviously the dog does not have to pay, the owner does, but doesn't make any of the original points in the comparison invalid re: cats, and the dog does have to do a course with the owner and learn.
Re: expensive restaurants - well if course, dogs are cuter and better behaved
For me, it really depends if the concert was more of a family/kid friendly affair. However, the general rule of courtesy really is to remove any screaming child from a concert/cinema as other people are trying to enjoy the performance.
Also, to credit the kids here, I've seen kids sit through quietly the Tonehalle's performance - both first and second half. Obviously not too young, more around 5-6 years old but kudos to their parents as it cant be easy.