Securing Penthouse Balcony (baby on balcony)

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
As amusing and nice as it is (or will be), our balcony is of late more cause for concern than joy. Seven floors up, it has few openings with guard rails that are like magnets for the exploring toddler.

Facts:

space between the bars = 13cm

bars are horizontal, so can be used as ladder to climb over the 95cm terrace wall.

7 floors up, roughly 20+meters hight

Now, my humble research into the relevant (for Geneva) norm SIA358 tells me that

bars must be vertical to prevent use as ladder

be no more than 11cm apart

the terrace walls must be min 100cm high in case possible fall on other side is >2m

Here is the tricky part. We sent an email to the regie, kindly asking for their intervention and offering to partially cover expenses. We received a reply along the lines of "balcony is safe, nothing will be done"...

Two ways forward from where I stand:

- meet our lawyer and draft a proper letter advising we shall seek to secure the balcony and then claim reimbursement

- ask for permission to carry out the "improvements" at our cost

The benefit of the lawyer root is obvious - it will save us money. Major drawback is that this little victory may (and likely will) backfire on all other interaction with the regie, God forbid non-renewal of the perpetual 1year lease...

In plan B, it will cost us roughly CHF 500 to do it right (materials mainly, I'm quite handy) but then - it should be secure by default and none of our business or money should go into fixing it.

Calling for your thoughts and comments, please.

Thanks

2
Have you considered moving?

3
As some who have been through the pains of finding a decent apartment in this area will say, THIS IS SPARTA, or should I say "this is Geneva"... it is exceptionally hard to find apartments, it is even harder to find good ones and very very difficult to do so on a mortal's budget.

Moving is not an option at present (have EuroMillion tickets for Friday)...

4
We "secured" our balcony for alot less than 500 chf - a few rolls of bamboo matting and some cable ties. It worked extremely well but of course you might not like it esoterically speaking but it certainly did not require landlord consent. But if you can fix it yourself then I would. Going the legal route will take a long time, not to mention the measuring/ordering/fabricating of the new railings. Summer is already well upon us and you want to feel safe going out onto that balcony.

PS remember no matter how much protection you put up against the railings, you must be careful not to leave anything even near the balcony door that toddler could get hold of and drag across to the balcony edge to stand on so as to get a better view. It only takes a few seconds of your attention being drawn elsewhere ... I was always so glad that the balcony door had a proper key lock so I could securely lock it and remove the key once we were inside. I know this is probably teaching Grandma to suck eggs so to speak, but I think it does bear repeating ..

PPS wasn't someone on here selling perspex panels that they had had made for their balcony over the weekend?

5
Simple.. ask them to provide the relevant legislation that says the balcony is compliant.

6
There is stuff that should be repeated. And you are right - saving a few bucks to "make it right" or proving a point may be the worse solution ever...

I checked quickly the sales forum all the way back to March 26 - couldn't find anything. If you happen to stumble across that link or keyword that would help me find it: thank you!

I'm lucky to have a huge Leroy Merlin just across the border, so sourcing the materials should be fairly straight-forward...

7
If that's the case, why not just drop the BFU an email and ask the proper procedure for reporting and rectifying non-compliance?

8
I would suggest that you look for the plastic version of the "bamboo". It is less ugly (if that is possible) and it should stand up a bit better to the weather. It comes in a couple of different coulours and heights . As mentioned, use cable ties (especially at the top and bottom).

The plastic version is sold here in CH. From memory, I have seen it at Coop Brico and Jumbo.

9
When was the property built or last renovated? Because it may be in compliance with the norms when it was put in.

I'll give you an example or two.....

1. My old chimney from 1990 had to be 20cm diameter; 2014 regs say 40cm

2. My old banister was 80cm. Compliance would suggest 120cm is safe (I don't know if this is actually regulated in my type of property though

If you go for a non-permanent solution that can be removed then you can do what you want to some degree. Be that mesh, bamboo, fake crawling plant stuff or something else.

10
http://www.englishforum.ch/items-sal...ny-zurich.html

I think they wanted it gone by now, but may still be worth a shot.

11
I would be extremely cautious about any 'home made' solution. They could just entice the baby to climb...

I could not live on a top floor apartment...having almost lost my youngest out an open window because he pushed a chair over and climbed up...from then on, no balcony and windows only on tilt...

12

Swisspea, when you put the bamboo stuff up, or indeed plexiglass, they can't climb. But it certainly does not remove the risk of them finding something to climb on .. which is why I mentioned it specifically in my earlier post. If anything, plexiglass is a better solution because it stops them climbing just to see over.

We protected our balcony for the purposes of my autistic son who does not perceive danger in the same way as other children. We were very happy with bamboo solution, but as my earlier post indicated, this should not lull you into a false sense of security that you can leave them out there unobserved.

Me - I took it as a lovely excuse to down tools and sit out on the sunny balcony enjoying the little one's company and the pleasant day ..

13
Bless your heart for the link - the time is not an issue but fact it is in Zurich area kinda defeats the purpose of improving the costs. Driving there and back would cost almost as much as crossing the border and buying tailored plexi.

Stories like this live in our parent heads each moment 24/7 - the reason why at this point I'm not so much into right/wrong/cheap/expensive but rather doing my best to secure the balcony.

At the end of the day, if we manage to get to a point where we enjoy the balcony rather than fear it, I'll chalk this as a success. But you make an excellent point addressing the curiosity with plexi rather than wood/bamboo or other solution. Duly noted and taken onboard! Thank you.

14
Have you raised it with Asloca? They should be able to help if indeed it is out of the norms. Then either they or you could put pressure on the regie.

15
What Sean C. mentioned about norms is quite valid. It is obvious that norms have tightened up over the years but as long as a building meets the norms that were in effect at the time it was build it is legally ok .

If however there are changes made to the building (in this case the barrier), it would need to be brought up the current norms.

It is a totally different situation if the barrier was defective (coming unbolted etc.). This is not the case.

16

Interesting thread - as we`ve just completed putting up the "guard" around a new cellar entrance. It HAD to have vertical bars/whatever, (horizontal bars are forbidden absolutely) with gaps no bigger than 11cm (smaller than a childs head size), even though we have no small children, and house land is enclosed. And height from ground must not be less than 1m.

Also, the rules state we MUST have a handrail, even though each of the 2 flights have only 5 broad wooden steps.

Those are the "new rules". But per your highlighted text above - I noticed this weekend that the local kindergarten, having been renovated, now has very steep entrances to their cellar with a loooong flight of 18 concrete steps heading downwards to a concrete floor - with NO handrail, and no protection against a small child attempting to use the steps - no gate at top of steps.

This is disturbing me now, and am wondering if any of the parents have noticed this dangerous "open" situation? An accident waiting to happen!

I`d be terrified of allowing any small child near a place like that!

......................Back on topic.........

I should imagine that a balcony over a 20m drop would have to be child-proof - and would ask the authorities to rectify it. Failing their "duty" - then whatever fullfills safety would be self-installed. Maybe ask about the aesthetics of what you want done? If the aesthetics is of concern, then cost should be borne by the apartment owner. Your concern is the safety of your child.

17
You guys are awesome! I'm humbled by the great tips and comments in here.

Norms and regulations are valid at time of construction and it appears the SIA358 was amended a few times for various cantons, including GE. Full frontal with the regie (or anywhere for that matter) may not be the best approach. Engaging lawyers on both sides and going into the he said - she said letter exchange will take time, cost more than just fixing it and leave negative trace on the relationship.

I am proud to report that this morning I went in person to the regie and explained that it is our desire to find a working and amiable solution that would improve the safety of the balcony for our child. It seems this was well received and the person in charge agreed to trigger an independent audit/inspection of the case. They will invite a third party company to report on their findings. Caveat is - should this be confirming compliance, we have to pay for it. Not sure this qualifies as caveat though, as it shows readiness on the regie part to work with us. I also took the opportunity to show pictures and plans for the plexi to be installed - received verbal permission to install, drill and all, and was later promised to receive same in writing, if need be.

So - the two scenarios ahead I see would be:

A) audit finds discrepancy: tech supervisor at regie said in such case they will "engage immediately and fix within days"

B) audit comes clean on paper: tech supervisor promised to grant written permission to drill and fix whatever, so in this case daddy-myself will have to engage and fix within days. LOL

Although I am tempted and itching in my head to ask proof of compliance, then have my lawyer go full FewGoodMen on their ass in court and force them to build it and all... this is just not productive.

Thank you folks - I will keep revisiting the thread, hopefully this is useful for those in similar situations down the road...

18
Oh good. Glad you seem to have found a peaceful (hopefully) solution to this problem.

Child welfare is top priority in Switzerland (well, except for the local kindergarten I mentioned - which potential danger seems to have escaped all those actually concerned) - so your concern for your child`s safety should be met with an agreeable solution by those (outwardly) responsible, and that the costs and work are borne by the building owners, in the interests of future tenants as well.

You are a good, caring, and capable Daddy!

19
I still have this for sale in case you are looking for an immediate/interim solution.

http://www.englishforum.ch/items-sal...will-ship.html

20
Thank you for your kind words, smoky. I shall congratulate myself on a job well done when the balcony is indeed secure. Until then, I'm still counting this as maximum risk and checking balcony doors 100 times an hour

Thank you, Mrs. Doolittle - this seems like a steal but is not transparent and I would like to build on the knowledge shared and minimise the curiosity factor "what's behind that".