Sick of America Bashing [and other thoughts about America]

Complaints Corner
21
Reminds me of this first dance, which used to make the rounds (and probably still does):

22
America is a super-power. Inevitably it treads on many toes. That creates resentment.

The Swiss are traditionally US friendly. Both are democracies and republics. However, the US Government is now exerting pressure on Swiss banks. Both are right. The US has a legitimate right to tax its residents. The Swiss consider their banking secrecy equally legitimate. Let's hope that this conflict can be amicably resolved. Else the Swiss will join the frustrated US bashers.

23
Constitutionally?

http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLaws...te06-17-04.htm

24
I think to bash US is a conversational cliche..Unfortunately, amongst some people it keeps the talk going, weather, politics, dieting, US bashing. The folks who I have met that were the most critical of the US did not really know the country at all.

I would welcome a bit of that "american" fun loving silliness here, flexibility and optimism. I know a lot of creative, spontaneous and openminded people from there, I miss them. I miss respect for an individual, diversity and uniqueness.

Don't let silly mindless talk get you down and take a trip home...

25
I often find the most vehement U.S. basher's have never actually been to the US (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone). Their knowledge is (of course) extensive and non-biased.

It drives me nuts.

26
I speak as someone who is neither Swiss nor American but who has homes in both countries

I love both in equal measures. Both are among the most blessed countries on this planet.

America has energy, vigour, youth and so much more going for it. Its yearning for individual freedom at all costs means that there are plenty of issues facing the country but its the most energising place to spend time. Switzerland on the other hand is much more ordered and has (in my humble opinion) perfected the formula for so many people to live in such close proximity in near total harmony and comfort.

Unfortunately my native country (Britain) seems to have settled for the worst of each of these different models.

So I'm with the original poster - enough with the America bashing. If you're reading this post then firstly give thanks that you're living in Switzerland, the world's most civilised country. Then give thanks for everything that America has given the world - I don't mean McDonald's etc but everything else like aeroplanes, space flight, saving Europe from Nazism to name a few.

27
Not exactly speaking as a pro american, I'll admit to a bit of american bashing in my time (not literaly). As I was a bit younger, it was probably to do with the politics, but still I find it hard to describe.

Here are a few of the things to show why I'm not overly fond of America that aren't to do with Bush, please don't take too seriously.

I have a strong distaste to their misuse of the English language, it's our language, we are always right about how it is used.

I don't like how they like our monarchy, yet no longer pay us taxes to support them.

American cars are ****, deal with it (except Ford, sometimes....).

Unless it's a landrover and driven by a farmer or being driven in the dakhar rally, 4x4s (or that terrible acronym, the SUV) are not cool, ever. No, don't argue, delude yourself all you like, they were uncool even before the green thing. Face it, it was a marketing ploy to get you to buy a new car from people who had run out of farmers to sell to.

Discretion is a good thing.

Starbucks, Mcdonalds and the chainification and corporatisation of everything.

On the plus side.

Hip hop isn't all bad, though the americanisation of radio would lead you to think different, same with all music genres.

I like coca cola and apple computers.

28
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You are sick of it because you A) take it too personally and B) because you mistake nation and government. Much of the criticism you hear is directed at what in Europe is perceived as being the US-American way, which is rubbish, and most of it is directed at the politics done by the US federal government in Washington/DC. If you watch things closely you may have noticed that lots has chanced since DC changed from GWB to Obama. While GWB was universally detested, Obama is liked or even loved by most, except some definite rightwingers. In many ways BHO is harsher with people than GWB ever was but he talks WITH people and not against people. He accepts other arguments and opinions and he realizes that whomever is not against the USA is at least a potential ally.

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Another aspect is that for many years, since the times of Mr Reagan in the White House,

A) the USA went to a kind of patriotism which in continental Europe went out of business in early 1945

B) the USA embarked into a kind of religiosity which in modern parts of Europe gradually passed out between 1600 and 1960

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for instance, people taking their right hand onto the left side of the breast when the national anthem is played, reminds Continental Europeans of the 1000 years of Messrs Hitler and Mussolini

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for instance, when seeing a video with the "Star Spangled Banner" and the speaker announcing "... played by ..... and sung by ...... winner ... Houston.....f

F16 squadron from the ....base.... and his voice overturning itself out of emotions

--->> reminds people in Continental Europe of Mr Göbbels

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You may regard these occurrences as normal, but here around they are not !

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In case you really should not be ready to accept these realities, I am most awfully sorry, but then you ought to get back to wherever .....

29
I think a lot of anti-American sentiment is mindlessly directed at individual Americans based on the false assumption that the policies and programs of the U.S. government represent the will of the American public. Much of what that government does both at home and abroad is not explicitly supported by many (if not most) Americans, who, if given a chance to cast an informed, direct vote on many of the individual policies and programs of the U.S. government, would likely shut them down.

It can't be helped, but there will also always be some folks who attribute to an entire nation some negative characteristic or behavior they've witnessed in the past.

Criticism of creationism as uniquely American is similarly misinformed, as there are creationist Christians throughout the world. One multinational organization building a museum in the U.S. doesn't make America the home of creationism any more than the Museum of Tolerance in LA makes America the home of tolerance, or the Cornwall Museum of Witchcraft makes Britain the home of witchcraft.

The OP's frustration is certainly understandable, but in fairness there is plenty of ignorance-based intolerance out there for just about anything to which a label can be attached. And as that isn't likely to change any time soon, one might as well enjoy the goodwill of those who don't judge on appearances or (false) perceptions, and recognize those who do as the shallow folks that they are — and ignore them.

30

This is sort of my view, my time as an expat has made me now be able to laugh at the strange things about my country. I find humor in the strangeness of different countries, there is tons to laugh at about the Swiss, the British, even the French.

31
OK, I'll admit, I'm currently sleepless, otherwise, I'd let this one go.

The resurgance of creationism does seem to be a uniquely American thing, and somehow linked to how some Americans sees Christianity as being closely linked to to the fabric of society.

While creationism is definetly not uniquely american, the new proponents do seem to be linked to american fundamentalists, I just happend to be reading this post on talk origins today, a site you may not be too happy to read, but this one is all about the various forms of creationism and how they have evolved in trying to battle or emulate science.

I'll leave it at that.

32
I would go so far to say alot of Americans are ill-informed of most of things the US government does outside of the US and how wide-spread the influence is of the American government is outside of the US. This is one reason, most Americans are surprised that other countries citizens would hate us (read All rhe Shah's Men as an example ). Of course, alot is blamed on the US which is not the US fault either (that is the nature of having a big footprint)

33
Well, if it were " uniquely American," one wouldn't expect the following organizations to exist (but they do ):

- Creation Ministries International (offices listed for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, and UK/Europe above the U.S.)

- Biblical Creation Society (UK)

- Hungarian Society of Creation Research and Biblical Sciences (Hungary)

- SEDIN (Spain)

- Polskie Towarznstwo Kreacjonistnczne (Poland)

- Wort und Wissen (Germany)

- Several more without websites are listed here . Even a cursory look at the technical journals and technical-level writings of creationary scientists would dispel for any (unprejudiced) reader the myth that the aim of their work is "trying to battle or emulate science," as they know and follow the practices and norms of scientific methodology as much as anybody else. Their not subscribing to a philosophy of naturalism doesn't change that.

34
I didn't say creationism was uniquely american, I'm saying it's resurgance is.

As far as I know, scientific methodology doesn't start out with the premise that the bible, or any other work, is inerrant.

35
You seem to be suggesting that all those non-American organizations were around well before what you call the "resurgence" in America, which still doesn't comport with the facts. Can you cite even one contemporary non-American creationary organization that wasn't formed within the past 40 years (i.e., during the "resurgence")?

That's right, scientific methodology says absolutely nothing about what premises are allowed or disallowed — just how the empirical evidence is handled for interpretion vis-à-vis those premises.

36
This thread is going to do nothing for our reputation as a bunch of whiners who can't take a little criticism.

37
I'm not sure I understand the question, or what you want me to say.

I think I'm saying exactly the opposite, that the organisations were set up because creationism had been marginalised and fundamentalists needed a veneer of scientific credibility as evidence mounted up against literal interpretations of religious works. This was spearheaded by organisations in America, at least that's how it seems to me admitedly.

To my timeline, the only fundamental stuff we heard as kids was from nutjobs on the streetcorner and televanlgelists from america, of course, correlation is not causation, so I guess I could be wrong.

Uhmmmm, I can't help but feel you're being deceptive here, science makes no assumptions, creationists do, in that, if evidence is against the bible, then the evidence, or it's interpretation is seen as wrong, that's not science, that's dogma. It doesn't get us any closer to the truth, but it makes a few fundamentalists happy as they try to shoehorn the bible into science with wordplay.

In the interests of sleep, and not derailing the the thread anymore, I'm butting out, you win this one.

38
Err, first of all, would you mind not inserting those dashes (- signs) between paragraphs? It makes your posts rather difficult to read somehow.

I don't think a bit of patriotism is a bad thing. Admittedly, there are many flaws with my home country, as with any other, but showing pride in her accomplishments, and respecting the deeds of those who've gone before, should not be interpreted negatively. However, that is, in my opinion, a symptom of WWII and it's effect on continental Europe. People around these parts had to worry about a foreign power with huge nationalistic overtones invading; America's never had to worry about that.

While I understand the historical reasons behind it, I don't think that makes it right to fear us simply because we stand up and take off our hats during the national anthem.

But that's just me. If I eventually get my Swiss citizenship, maybe I'll treat the Schwiezerische Landeshymne the same way.

39
Look, I dislike fundamentalist Christians as much as the next guy (I'm sure there are threads on here about my agnosticism, though I often just say "atheist" for simplicity), but science does indeed make assumptions. You make an assumption, deduct the consequences it would have, and try to disprove it.

It's actually in step 3 that religious people tend to differ in their approach, I think - rather than trying to disprove something, they attempt to prove it. But that's just getting into wordplay - the point was rather that science makes many assumptions and simply disproves them over time.

40
I went to school with and was a neighbour of an American in Merseyside (UK) for two years in the 1960s. He left the UK in 1968, went back to the USA, and had never returned until we met up last month on his first time back to the UK after over 40 years.

He simply could not get over how Americanised British society had become in the last 40 years. When he left England there were no baseball caps, T shirts with writing on, no MacDonald's, Burger Kings and all the rest of Americana we see all around us. Europe has been drastically and irreversibly globalised in the last 40 years - more probably than most Europeans realise - which in reality means Americanised: from what we eat, put on our heads, what our kids wear and what we all listen to and watch.

Once, visiting the USA, as I did for the first of many times in 1964, was like visiting another planet. Vibrant, colourful, exciting and above so very very different. If today, the USA is more familiar, in many ways this is not a bad thing. But the replacement of European national identity and the conformity of, say accounting systems, for international businesses demanded by the USA, will of course meet with resistance and comment.

The influence of the USA on the lives and lifestyles of the rest of the world has been immense in the last 40 years. It is no surprise that there is some backlash. What is surprising, is how sensitive individual Americans are to criticism and any negative comment about their country and how personally they take such comments. My American school pal spent the whole time apologising for it...

PS. Sutter's comment here sums it all up: Mini Miss UK