Sick of America Bashing [and other thoughts about America]

I think you answered it yourself.

As an individual, you may have not voted in whoever made the decisions your country made, but the majority of your people did in a democratic society.

A lot of foreigners will see it like that.

I would say that America is now like a bully that knows its time as the petrifying bully is up and so goes around beating up the weaklings while it can.

Perhaps the Obama presidency will change that but I wonder how much control he really has.

Cashboy.. a little history ?

Most of the current hot spots in our world today, are in former colonies and are a legacy of the great imperial Europe of centuries past. (notice, I'm saying Europe in general, because most countries in Europe had colonies)

Wollishofener

I believe that TheSpouse's message is aimed towards Europe as a whole. Thank you, I loved your video.

Objectively speaking you have your government to blame for that i'm afraid... Americans are seen world-wide as arrogant and interfering, and a sad repercussion of this is their nice citizens getting flack for it. Also blame Bush for being such a bumbling buffoon every time he went near a camera, as well as being the stereotypical christian fundamentalism that is so derided outside of America. He was basically the worst PR your country has ever had, and did more to damage your rep in 8 years than anything possible. The goverment in general is seen as manipulative, ruthless and corrupt, fuelled by decades of movies pouring various consipiracy theories in to our heads.

I'd personally love to go to the U.S. though, just never had the chance.

So many strong opinions, and yet..

Your point being...

many people want to go.

I was speaking objectively about why I think Americans have a bad rep because of the goverment, and I don't see how that affects my desire to go to the country or meet the people.

I'm a US citizen, and have lived in Switzerland for nearly 2 years. Not such a long time, of course. I've been visiting Europe for the last 15 years, mostly the Netherlands. Bashing is more often directed at US institutions and government and not individuals, although sometimes it is difficult not to take it personally. A few years ago I was in a shop in Provence and the shopkeeper said to me, Ah, you are an American? I like your country but not your president. I said "Well, I don't like him either."

I feel pretty free to bash the US myself. The administration, corporate culture, social culture and religion, whatever. With a few exceptions, I don't complain about many other places though. And I have to wonder why that is the case. (I think it's because of ignorance, rather than something positive).

Because so many in the world speak some form of English, and most people in the US speak only American English, and because US electronic media is so widespread - US culture is easily exported. A lot of media content on televison, films and the Internet comes from the US. People from the US can be a little isolated too. Before 9/11, less than 20% of US citizens had passports. Because culture is exported, rather than imported, and because of a lack of travel, lots of US citizens think that the world is more like the US than it is (or should be like the US because that's all they know).

This exporting of news and culture is why, for example, it might appear that creationism is on the rise in the US but not elsewhere, when in fact, that might not be the case. We might not know of it in other countries because we either don't get that news, or don't bother to look at it.

On this forum in particular, I see that other English speaking people often comment on the US propensity to whine. But I've seen people from the UK complain about chips and health care and people from South Africa complain about the lack of barbecue, and everyone complains about the cost. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps it's just sheer numbers. Or maybe it's the fact that everyone seems to know (or has an opinion) about US problems but US citizens either don't know or don't care about stuff from other English speaking places. I don't, and truth be told, I spend more time trying to understand Swiss culture.

I thought the video was very amusing and sweet, but I have to ask, what does it have to do with being an "American?" It is that no other country in the world would have eccentric wedding ceremonies?

I think what is most disturbing is these disproven fallacies are being taught in the schools in the US .

I agree with BaseLife's post.

However, a lot of the times simple criticism is taken as being Anti-American in the same way that all people who criticise Israel and their policies are Anti-Semitic.

Yes OK.

It's probably best to wait until you actually have a war there, I suppose.

Is it it really mindless to assume the US is a real democracy where people have at least some responsability for the actions of their government? And pre-Afghanistan/Iraq-war polls showed a clear majority for these wars, among both Dems and Reps, so I don't see why the American people cannot be blamed for it. Plus saying that creationism is everywhere is correct but slightly missleading as they haven't been able to gain a political foothold anywhere else as fas as I know. Personally I like Americans as people, but they are often awfully ignorant when it comes to politics and world affairs, and that's something I find inexcusable for such a large and dominant country that happens to be a democracy.

Politics' my only beef with them, if the US was a largely self-centered, diplomatic and sensible country I'd be much more positive about the country and people, as I love their freedom-loving, entrepreneurial mindset.

I'm glad I don't have kids in school in these places.

Here's the original study that the article refers to

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/i...l.pbio.0060124

While others may disagree and tell me that evolution is just a theory, I think that there is sufficient evidence in the scientific record, and coupled with an understanding of genetics, reproduction, randomness and statistics, I just don't see how Intelligent Design or any of this stuff can be given the same theoretical standing. I also wonder though, that people charged with teaching "evolution" understand it sufficiently - you really do have to know some genetics, some statistics, and some biology - just pointing to Darwin simply misses too much.

We know what is taught in the US.... do we know what is taught in other parts of the world? Is it an American thing, or do we just know more about it because we know more about the debate in the US?

You mean there is a difference between Iraq and Iran?

why? and if you are, why let others know about it? im ok with "you" thinking US of A is gods own country, putting your hands over your heart n singing the national anthem. all countries do, many people like their country but to be honest: US people do let me know how much they love it, how great it is to be american, to live there. as a big footprints-leaving-super-power-nation...its the way it is, the way we are.

why? have you heard this from any swiss (fill in any other european country) in 1st 10minutes of smalltalk-> my profession is xy, im big, working big company/own BIG company. i make xyz millions a year. i have a house, xyz big, had cost 85555millions CHF. its so big, you can see it from a outerspace. big, eh? i dont! and i dont wanna hear about it, its of non-interest to me! i cant buy anything from that, i am not into a competiton! it doesnt give me any new (in)sights about life, most important: you!

for me and many other people i know not coming from america, THIS is what ruins all the sympathy credits. start groaning, but thats the bloody truth out there! i spoke with many americans about it. those that have lived here for quiet some time 5,10, 15 yrs say "i am right" and give a crap about it how big your career, house, car etc. is. its of no importance WHAT you are but WHO you are. if you like football (erm soccer) what team? whats your favourite beer, sports, latest travels, whats your PERSONA like???

true point! you never had a war (apart from south vs. north) on your home turf! go n have it, experience it in its full consequences and i believe you will think never again about a war your gov tricks you into. apart its one thing i dont get: there were so many occasions (korea, vietnam...etc.) where it was about : be against the war and youre against the USA. later all people claimed: bring our boys home! as "you" again found out how cruel the war is, how the media manipulated again facts. to me its like another Hitler is in charge n start another holocaust and after some time were sorry again that we didnt had a clue about it. sawry! why dont you learn from it?

yes, very harsh arguments! yes, its only the idea i got after i have read plenty US and european media (online, tv, print)! yes, i havent lived in the USA! yes, i only have traveled the BIG US of A a bit.

BUt i have spoken to you, i have lived with you since 20yrs all over europe i have lived, i have worked with you, i have chilled, relaxed, bbqued, played with and against you! i love arts and music and poetry from artist that are americans, i love some american goods (apple). but nobody could answer, nowhere i found my questions answered without "you" being appalling, rejective, non-constructive, capable of taking criticism, explaining your point of view to a dumb european without big footprints= big rumble in the jungle-"arguments".

to me its like i am working out in the gym and im not used to shower, change shirts n maybe (not necessary) put some perfume on. and being told that i smell...i sulk, get angry-> because i am a man and i work out... its the way i am!

but i layed in bed and i thought about what i was told. and i took on the criticism and changed (yes, we can!) a bit... now im nearly everybodys friend... couldnt believe how easy it was...

Apparently, you can study the same old rubbish in the UK too.

Emmanual College, Gateshead.

Apparently this one is part funded by Reg Vardy , which allows him to personally influence the curriculum.

Check it out, its completely ed: link

I get that feeling sometimes too. There are plenty of America-lovers here too though, especially the young folk.

I was in Glarus last week, and wound up at the Route 66 bar. Looks like a real dive, but the locals in it were lovely to us English speakers - and when they found out I was an American ...!

"Echte Amerikanerin? Aus Amerika, wirklich?"

"Ja, ja wirklich," and that was it - I was impossibly glamorous and exciting for the rest of the night (and, as my very English companion could tell you, insufferably smug for three days after.)

Try mentioning peanut butter and celery - that seems to elicit the same response.

just to wade in (and get ready for the groans)

Have you seen Team America World Police (a very funny film) well thats how the rest of the world see america.

The american's version of diplimacy is to jump in feet first, shout a lot, threaten and cry if they don't get there own way, much like a spoilt child.

The euopeans also hate (with a passion) when ill informed yanks spout off about how 'they' saved us all in ww2, you didn't! stop watching those hollywood war films, they are not fact they are entertainment!!

I believe there are enough hard facts that people do not need to watch hollywood movies to be critical about the US.

I think what MusicChick said is the same for most other cases as well. How many of the "free tibet" people in Switzerland actually known and understand China? Or the history of Iran to put that weird president they have into context?

The same is true for the US. Except that the US are much more important for Europe than China or Iran. Therefore people speak about it and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Blaming each and every US citizen for whatever Bush did is. I think I am educated and very interested in history, politics and culture. But I had a hard time to put "W." into context and did have an even harder time to understand why Bush got elected a second time.

I remember how good the US were perceived here during the Clinton administration: Of course there are stereotypes like the Texan cowboy, and yes, i think the cars are crap as well, but after all I wanted to have a cool president that plays the sax and improved the situation in the middle east in my country as well.

I also remember how Rumsfeld insulted most of Europe and how Powell spoke in front of the UN security council and showed the proof for WMDs (and I though about him as a very smart guy before). I never understood why the Taliban got attacked for Bin Ladens actions (while I do believe they were worth to be removed for their behaviour). Watching how CNN linked the Taliban to Iraq was so obviously wrong that I found it scary and funny at the same time. Illegal CIA prisons, waterboarding, Abu Ghraib... the list goes on. In short: The US lost a lot of credibility and trust in the last years, not only in Europe. And I do not think you can blame anybody outside the US for that. Millions lost loved ones in the wars and will therefore hate the US for a long time.

As a German born in the late 70s I had and still sometimes have to deal with the same "Bashing" for things that happened at a time my dad was not even born yet. I surely do not think it is right, but I guess I can only give one advice: Ignore the biggest idiots and discuss with the less severe cases. A "but we are cool and you just do not know us" attitude does sound a bit naive...

I understand the frustration of the OP, and shared my thoughts on the subject a few months ago.

There are a few more points raised in this thread which I'd like to address, though: To those who use the excuse of the United States being a democracy to justify criticising American policy to Americans abroad: How much influence upon the government do you think Joe at UBS from Wadena, Minnesota actually has? The United Kingdom is a democracy too, but I don't recall voting for any of the current shower, and I get a bit miffed when some git at the sausage stand starts giving me **** because of their idiotic foreign policies. I shouldn't imagine it's much different for ordinary Americans who are simply trying to go about their business like any Swede, Moroccan or Bolivian would like to do; To those who moan about the 'Americani z ation' of the world: How many people are actually compelled to buy burgers in McDonalds, wear baseball caps and drink Coca-Cola? People do these things because they like to. Shall we criticise the Japanese because it's fashionable to eat raw fish wrapped in sticky rice, or the Brazilians because it's cool to drink a glass of crushed ice with half a lime in it? This bollocks about anti-Americanism being a consequence of the silly soddery of President Bush Jr really does need to be put in its place: I had a very good American friend way back in the late eighties who gave up the chance to stay in Manchester for another year because she was sick and tired of the anti-American rants to which she was subjected almost every time she went into the Student Union Bar. She was 21. Mr Hussein was still enjoying Quality Street toffees in his palace in Baghdad, Kabul was still a happy Islamic paradise, Guantanamo Bay was still being used for Salsa Night Classes. And my friend was still made to feel like a war criminal for the crime of wanting to sup at a pint of Boddingtons in a plastic glass. I don't think we can blame Dubya for that one, can we? It must be great to know you've made a stand for freedom and anti-globalisation by ruining some poor bugger's day by making him listen to how crap his country is for the fourteenth time this week. He didn't choose to be born in this week's superpower; he probably isn't living there at the moment; the fact that you've met him at all tells you quite a lot about his view of the world (he's living on another continent, you tw@t!); he's heard it all before; he'd quite like to enjoy his pint in peace, thank you very much.

If you want to rant like an idiot at a representative of the Great Satan, have a go at an Englishman.

We like it: It reminds us that we're special.