I would appreciate some advice on what to do or where to check for official information.
I was with a friend in CH last month with a german registered rental car. Apparently we were speeding at a certain location and I received a letter from the Swiss police to my home address in UK asking me to inform them who the driver was. Both of us were registered and insured on the car but I was the credit card holder.
The letter says we were speeding with 160kph on a 120 kph motorway.
First question: Do you know what the fine is for that speed (they deduct 7kph from 40 leaving us with 33kph over limit)
Second question: We do not remember having been caught by a camera and we do not remember who was driving the car at that instance of time, since we were alternating. What should we do? If we say we dont remember who the driver was, what happens next? Do they call us back to CH to determine who the driver was?
Third question: They say they have photographic evidence. Can they determine from the photo the face of the driver? Can we ask to see the photo so that we can identify the driver?
We wish to be OK with the law. If the photo shows who the driver was we will point them out who the driver was and pay the fine. However, if they cant give us more information what happends next. Do I get all the blame for being the main driver?
sure you can ask for the photo, but it costs. Not sure how much. Speeding.. great revenue collector. It cost me 40chf for 4km/h over.. could that be a rule of thumb?
it seems if you had lived here, you would have been close to having lost your licence..
i assume the fine will be in excess of 260CHF
will they find you? well, they have already found you.. and being Swiss police, they don't like to be wrong, and have the time and the energy to take it as far as it will go..
Hello E-T - you raise lots of points, most of which have previously been addressed in identical threads, I would suggest you search for specifics regarding penalties.
Two things should be said:
1) Although the Police may claim that have photographic evidence, it may not be clear enough to identify a face. However, unless you are feeling lucky, I wouldn't bluff it.
2) If you don't answer, or deny it was either of you driving, then they will try and bill the rental company who will obviously take steps against you if you were the main driver (irrespective who was at the wheel when you hit the speed trap).
If you want to be OK with the law, which you would be daft not to, just write back saying exactly what you posted, that you don't know who was driving at the time, but that you will cover the fine. That shows willing and co-operation to settle this. The slight problem in your instance is that you were way above the tolerance allowed in Switzerland. On the freeways up to 149 will get you fined, over 150 you are walking for at least 3 months plus a heavy fine. Quite how this translates to foreigners, I'm not sure. But if you try to muddy the waters, you could make things a lot worse than they already are.
A friend of ours was caught by camera here, going waaaaay above the speed limit, unfortunatly the police caught up with him here as well, they 'invited' him to surrender his uk licence (which he refused to do, and they cannot make you) fined him 7000chf and banned him from driving in switzerland for 1 year. They also took his passport until he paid the fine, don't know about the legalities of that but it was that or spend a night or 2 in prison.
I also found some information about this, that you get you licence removed for 1 month and your fine depends on your salary.
But the main question is: Who was the driver? We simply dont remember. So whose license is it that has to be removed, and whose salary should be taken as basis?
So what happens if we dont remember who was driving at the time.
at that point you are verging on a fine equal to 'a significant fraction of your salary'. i would expect around 1000CHF at least. this would be the case if you were resident in CH.
as mentioned it would cost you as in normal circumstances a request for 'proof' is considered as 'contesting' the fine! but in your case you may get away with it if you speak with them and explain the situation.
also note that if either of you enter CH again and are 'interviewed' for any reason by police or border control they can hold either of you until you pay the fine, whatever that may be.
It'll be decided by a judge (which is probably why they haven't told you the amount already) but the standard recommendation for this speed is a CHF600 fine and a one-month suspension, according to this site (in German.)
Not sure how the suspension will play out for a non-CH resident, but I know it's been discussed on here before... try a search for "speeding."
They know who the weapon of the crime is registered on me
But they dont know who commited the crime, and neither do we.
Assuming that it was my friend who was driving and I informed the police of this, and then later my friend denied it was him driving, then what? Or
If the offense necessitated imprisonment who would go to prison?
I cannot imagine a situation where the police takes us to the court and tells the judge "its one of these two guys who did it" and lets the judge to discover it. Its the police's responsibility to name the criminal and judges to pass on the crime
I guess i need to talk with a Swiss Lawyer of Citizens Advice Bureau if there are in CH
But hey, thank you guys for your concern to help me. I appreciate it
Its a bit sharper over here, i doubt you could play it really. In the UK i know there have been cases by claiming neither knew who was driving you got clean away (there was a case of murder where this was successfully used I recall!) but thing is if you go as far as agreeing to meet them in court out here they'll just come up with something to punish both of you under joint responsibility or some such idea. If your going to do a runner, I would do it now, I really wouldn't try and take them on under a loophole that only sometimes works in the UK.. just my thoughts...
In Switzerland you can either demonstrate that you were physically remote from the car (abroad, travelling, in a hospital, dead, whatever) or else the owner (or principal renter of) the car will get billed.
I believe you know there's no "both of us were registered" on a rental car - there's the one main driver with contact and more importantly billing details, and up to xyz extra drivers, without billing details...
I asked a swiss colleague - you're looking at around 1000 CHF including the administrative costs. The fine itself should somewhere around 500CHF the other part is administrative cost. That is valid for swiss residents though - dunno how it goes for non-residents.
You had to pay to see the photo my husband was done for running a red light and they sent him a fine, but he didn`t believe that he had run the light so they invited him to the police station to have a look at his photo for free.
"thedog" : I appreciate you concern. Its a lot of money but there is nothing else I can do
" Shorrick Mk2 " : My comment is more of a general nature here, but also applicable to my case. The basis of legal systems is that everyone is innocent unless proven otherwise . Yes I was the main driver but that doesnt mean I was driving the car at the time. It might well have been my friend who was also registered as an additional driver. If we need to appear in court then the police needs to point out the offender. If it doesnt work like that as you kindly informed me then its wrong but I cannot change it. If it is only a fine though we would just split the cost and pay it without taking it further though.
The moral of the story is just pay and move on, they may even let you spread payments over a three months period. I guess you won't speed in Switzerland again.
I am not sure now whether they will give you a ban and demand your license. Everything will be done by post. If you do have to send them your license, it is questionable whether you can drive in the UK, due to all the new bilateral treaties. Check with the DVLA to be on the 'safe' side. You can also choose when your ban starts normally, so book a holiday and enjoy being car less.
Most European law and Swiss law in particular does not have the same basis as English law, so yes the judges can and often do have responsibility for the investigation phase as well as the trial phase!
If you are unable to supply the requested information, then you can expect that the judge will come up with a solution and since you are the one they have the billing information on, it's a good bet that you will be the one who ends up having to pay. Better still, you may simply discover it has been charged to your credit card!!!
If memory servers me correctly there was a similar discussion a while ago and as far as I can recall, the police billed the rental company, who then charged it to the credit card of the person who rented the car.
It's possible YOUR legal system works like that, but that does not mean everyone else's is built the same way.
Wrong from your point of view, perhaps. But if you've rented a car, it's reasonable to assume that you're the one driving it, unless you claim otherwise. Is it really reasonable for the police to believe that you were switching drivers so often you can't remember who was driving on a given stretch of road? Perhaps, perhaps not, but it's not like you're driving across America here...
You're obviously concerned about going to jail, which is an unlikely outcome. Just pay the fine and accept that one of you may not be able to drive in Switzerland for a while.