Hi everyone,
A rather special question I have today.
My wife has been granted a PhD position from the university in Milan, Italy.
My question is if she needs any special type of permit (cross-border etc) if she just intends to stay in Milan for three to four days a week and the rest in Switzerland. In other words, she will be a frequent traveler in between the two countries, but still keeping her main address and everything (insurance etc) in Switzerland.
According to Italian law, anyone beyond 90 days stay in Italy should apply for a permit, but the point is that she intends to be just a cross-border traveler and has no intention for settlement in Itay.
Thanks for sharing your ideas and experiences.
Where will your wife stay those 3-4 days a week? In a hotel or residential accommodation?
Sounds like she may end up being a resident in both countries.
She intends to rent a fully furnished flat, with an assumption that the owners do not request for an Italian permit. At least we have not seen such requirement in any of the flat postings on Italian rental website...
She is not a cross-border traveller , but a cross-border worker . She will get a salary in Italy and be subject to Italian labor regulations.
If the situation were reversed, she would need a permit - work in one country, live in another.
So I would assume it's the same, and her Swiss permit is of little relevance in Italy. Assuming she's an EU citizen, it should be a formality only, but the Italian authorities are who you need to ask, rather than Swiss ones.
Yes, nationality will be the key. If EU then should be possible, if not then I doubt it will be.
She will probably need an Italian permit as well and should check if they use anything like the Swiss G (cross border) permit.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home…willigung.html
You'll need a good accountant.
Italian law distinguishes between residence and tax residence.
IMU/TASI (house taxes) are a notorious pain in this area, as they differ between first and second house. My accountant seems to change her mind every few years if my first house is Italy needs to pay first or second house taxes. Fun.
Taxes on her salary I believe will need to be paid in Italy, and then a tax declaration done in Switzerland as she's also resident here. There are some accords on double-taxation (or no-double taxation) - but it's not that simple.
May be totally wrong - but my suggestion is to approach an accountant specializing in cross border taxation in Italy... quite a few of those in Milan...
M.
Actually she will have an scholarship, meaning that the tax and everything is deduced before she get that in her account.
Actually we are non-EU but have been living here on B permit since 2013.
Housing taxes also change depending on your residence status (first vs second house; resident in Italy or abroad).
I believe she needs to declare her salary in Switzerland, and then claim exception under the double taxation clauses,.... but this is out of my depth.
"Here" being where exactly?
Financial considerations are part 2 of the question. Part 1 is what permit, if any, she will need, especially as a non-EU, and for that, the Italian authorities are the ones you need to ask. Again, she is not a tourist, she works there and also plans to take up residence, if only part-time. That is a significant difference.
If any non-EU were to commute to Switzerland without a G permit for work, there'd be not-so-pleasant consequences if caught. The G permit here is a form of work permit, and for non-EU, the rules are stricter than strict (in fact, it's usually not allowed). You also normally need permanent residency in the 'main' country to even be considered (however, a B in Switzerland is not permanent residency). Again, if reversed, chances are she wouldn't be allowed to do this - however, Italy may or may not be equally strict and may or may not have similar rules.
If she is a non-EU, then AFAIK she is allowed to be in the EU up to 90 within any 180 day period. Additionally this may be only for touristic purposes. A PhD position is studying and work together, that certainly does not fit the description of tourism.
The fact that she has a Swiss permit is totally irrelevant in Italy, and quite honestly, I am surprised that the university in Milan did not ask her permit status and/or talked about permit applications in conjunction with the position.
Or maybe she told them "I am resident in Switzerland" which is true but could have been lost in translation/understood by the recipient as "I am Swiss" which are two entirely different things.
The apartment is the least of your worries. I would first check what permit she needs to be legally able to take the position. It would suck if the university withdrew the offer upon finding out that oops, she is non-EU and does not have a valid permit in Italy . Secondly, as Spinal said, there will be tax implications in Italy because, being 4 days a week in Italy and receiving an Italian salary/stipend, she could be over the minimum threshold to trigger tax residency. Third, the apartment: it might not be explicitly written in the ads, but that doesn't mean that the landlord won't want to see her documentation that legally allows her to reside in Italy before signing the rental contract. I remember many of my non-EU friends having to show their legal permesso di soggiorno before signing rental contracts.
Thanks for looking from several perspectives.
Actually, the university in Italy knows she is not an EU citizen and because of that, they have even send her a letter for her reference to the embassy for an Entry visa to Italy ( which she will anyway do not need as we live in Switzerland and can freely travel within Schengen states.
Regarding the tax issues, she has received a scholarship meaning that the tax is reduced at source. Of course we will need to report it upon tax declaration in CH. At least we think so and that is one thing to clarify within the next months.
Is the university aware that she already resides in Switzerland? Because I ́d have thought that with a residency permit for Switzerland you no longer need a entry visa for a Schengen country. Something sounds strange in this equation
Not for work! She will need a new entry visa for Italy to get an Italian permit!
Tom
Don’t count on it. A non-EU national still needs an entry visa when taking up employment here in Switzerland. Why? Because they’re going to be here for more than 90 days.
" I am a citizen of a non-EU/EFTA state in possession of an unlimited residence permit valid for an EU/EFTA state. Do I need visa to work in Switzerland?
Whether or not you possess a residence permit valid for an EU/EFTA state does not affect your status in Switzerland . You are subject to the same provisions on entry and work as people who enter Switzerland from a third state. As a rule, you will need to apply for an entry visa, which will be issued by the Swiss diplomatic representation abroad as soon as you have been granted a work permit."
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home…rbeit/faq.html
Priority must be to find out exactly what she needs to do regarding any Italian permits and visas asap.
The Schengen travel is for tourism purposes only. For employment or work you must check whether a visa is required or not.
Contact the relevant Italian authority first thing on Monday to sort the permit and visa out. Because if it isn’t the rest may just be a waste of her time.
As a non-EU citizen, her Swiss residence permit only allows her to enter Italy as a tourist - not to start living there better than 50% of the time and working. Some googling shows Italy has a rather complex permit process, which appears much less straightforward than Switzerland. It's not even clear if they allow students to be cross-border.
Here's the info from a few different unis:
http://international.polito.it/pract...sidence_permit
https://www.unibocconi.eu/wps/wcm/co...12+04+19+04+08
Also I wonder if she's not spending at least 50% of her time in Switzerland, how would she still be eligible for a residence permit here?
Seriously, talk to the Italian authorities next week. If you don't want to risk that, clarify your plans with the school and ask them to give you relevant statutes and links to paperwork/info.
The last thing you want to do as a non-EU is run afoul of the rules and risk being banned from Shengen entirely.
Thanks, wasn ́t aware of that, interesting to know (of course, she will be working there, not going there as a tourist, good we have so many knowledgeable people here!)
Visa and permit are not the same thing. A visa is to enter a country, a permit is for residence and/or work. She can travel within Schengen as much as she wants (well within 90 days). But she doesn't want to travel, she wants to work and take up partial residence. So she may or may not need a new visa to enter Italy. That's still not the main concern though, that would be that she has no permission to do anything in Italy other than travel.
I don't think the university necessarily understands that this is not exactly a standard case and that an entry visa will not be sufficient.
3Wishes also brings up a good point. Even in case she does get some residence & work or even a cross-border permit for Italy (if such a thing exists), it's unlikely she could keep her Swiss B permit. Or any Swiss permit. Why would they give her one if she neither really resides nor works here?
Which is then an issue for OP as well who probably couldn ́t stay in Switzerland if his wife is resident in Italy? Unless OP has a permit on his own