Studying 'under the table'

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
1
Hello all,

I'm Canadian and have just been accepted to the Master's program at the University of Zurich (after 3 months they FINALLY finished reviewing my application... so much for Swiss efficiency!).

I wish they'd gotten back to me sooner, because only now can I apply for a student visa, which takes up to 4 months to get. The semester starts in ONE MONTH, and I probably can't get the visa in time.

My question is: do you think I can still go to classes while I wait for the visa?

Will anyone at the university say "STOP. WHERE'S YOUR VISA, YOUNG LADY?"

I don't want to get kicked out of the country or something... but I don't know what other options are available to me at this point.

Thanks!

2
Hey, I noticed you haven't had any replies yet so I thought I'd give you my opinion on the topic, though I have no experience in what you're going through.

I know that at customs when you arrive in Switzerland they will ask you why you are there - if you say to study, I'm sure they'll ask to see your approved study visa, which you (possibly) won't have by then and there's a concern they may turn you away.

You could decide to tell them you're there to visit, while quietly waiting for your visa to be approved (and the longest you stay in Switzerland as a Canadian is 6 months of the calendar year but only three consecutive months at a time) - they'll stamp your passport and you'll be on your way. However, it's when you decide to leave Switzerland that customs will see this stamp and this is where you might run into trouble.

I'm obviously no authority on this issue, but I know someone who came into Switzerland and over stayed her 90 day limit by 40 days and customs noticed this by the stamp she received when she entered the country. now she's awaiting a letter from the Swiss government on whether or not she will be allowed back into the country at all....

I just thought I'd let you know that, yeah, there's probably a way to start your studies without your visa, but it might catch up with you at customs if you, perhaps, choose to tell them a different story.

Again, I am no authority on the issue, and perhaps there is a way to start your studies while you wait for your visa but I thought I'd give you something to consider based on the stories I've heard.

3
I'm experiencing the exact same situation! I will be doing my MSc in Environmental Science, and UZH has been frustratingly slow with the whole process.

After spending 4 years in Ticino doing my bachelor's degree, I have seen how strict some of the immigration authorities can be. They do not always take lightly to someone trying to circumvent their rules.

However, I did have a friend that encountered a similar situation 2 years ago. He was able to have the Swiss consulate transfer his visa to the Swiss consulate in Milan. He picked his visa up in Italy, and said the permit office did not even look to see when he had originally entered.

The coordinator for my program said that if I do not receive my visa in time I can come late and make up the classes next fall....but that sounds like a nightmare.

I am just hoping I can charm someone at the consulate to somehow expedite the process.

4
Ask the University what to do. I have no idea if it's possible, but I imagine that if they can vouch for you that the visa is in process, then that may be all that you need. In the event for some reason the visa is rejected, well, off you go then.

But- if you try to Mickey Mouse with immigration stuff you're more likely than not to find that all doors are closed and you can forget studying or moving here for a good while.

5
Thanks for your input.

I have some updates on this situation - I called the university and they said they don't know whether I can study if I come to Switzerland as a tourist, the ones who handle those affairs are the immigration bureaus. They recommended (as they did for you, khartman), that I start classes in January.

b.allison: I was planning to go to Switzerland as a tourist, and then apply for my visa from afar (I would mail my passport back to Canada, and have my parents mail it back to me with the visa).

However, one thing that concerns me is the whole "immatrikulation" thing. According to UZH, before you can be registered for classes you need to present yourself to their neighborhood's “Kreisbüro” and show their student visa. (Read below or click this link: http://www.uzh.ch/studies/applicatio.../entry_en.html )

"Students from countries with a visa requirement need to apply for a visa at the Swiss embassy or consulate general of their home country at least three months before entry. Please note that students from the above mentioned countries can not be matriculated at the University of Zurich without having a valid visa. Registration

After having entered Switzerland, all students are required to register at the local residents’ registration office (“Kreisbüro”) in their neighbourhood of residence. Students living outside the city report to the registration office of their local authorities. You will need a valid passport, two passport-size photographs, confirmation of matriculation from the University of Zurich, and a visa if required. A residence permit and a foreigner’s identity card will be issued four to six weeks after registration. Both registration and identity card are liable to a fee"

The German version of this page even states explicitly:

"Studierende aus visumspflichtigen Ländern, die ohne Visum in die Schweiz einreisen, werden an der Universität Zürich nicht eingeschrieben."

(translation: If a student from a visa-requiring country enters Switzerland without their visa, they will not be registered with UZH)

So it seems pretty clear that we can't enter as tourists and get the visas later! But I could have sworn that I've heard of other people doing this before.

I'm hoping the same thing! But so far the consulate hasn't been very encouraging...

I don't understand how the university can take so long to review applications. How do they expect foreign students to get their visas in time??

I'll keep you updated as the struggle continues.... and good luck to those who are in the same boat!!

6
Hi there,

I'm in the same boat, only this week hearing back from UZH. A couple of thoughts -

1) Surely, we won't need to wait until January to enroll? Even if you apply now, 8 weeks from now is the 30th of Septemeber; if you enter the country on a tourist visa, it would only be for a few weeks before it is all sorted out. So you won't be overstaying your visa, which hopefully means Immigration shouldn't care.

2) If the country doesn't care, then the next problem is UZH. I agree that the language on the German page is worrisome, but perhaps it is just another person to be charmed. I can't imagine them checking the visa status of everyone, which leads me to my next thought:

The admissions package mentions that someone else can register you (with written authorization and all the forms). I think this is the only step where they would conceivably check your immigration status - after this, you'll get the bill, and then they send you your id card and password. So, I'm looking into seeing if I can find a Swiss friend of a friend who could go pick that up for me. It doesn't mention that a visa is necessary for this process, though they do need a "personal identity card" for you.

Additionally, one of the reasons that the Swiss visa process takes so long is that it actually gets mailed to Zurich and processed there. You can probably dramatically decrease processing time if you buy them a FedEx overnight envelope for the trip there and back, and try to charm them into using it.

Anyway, those are the two avenues I will be trying to pursue. Good luck!

7
Also, after poking around a bit on the internet, I find a lot of people seem to suggest that we need to apply for a visa by the time we begin studies, but not necessarily have one.

None of these are actual authorities, but here are a few posts:

http://www.glocals.com/forums/geneva...neva/35253.htm

visa to study

Just a couple encouraging anecdotes.

8
dneil, thanks for finding those. So you are planning to go on a tourist visa? Maybe I'll try that as well... I wish the university could tell us whether this is plausible or not.

We do need to send in our passports in order to get the visa, right? That's something I've never been clear on. So if you were to go as a tourist, you'd have to send in the passport from Switzerland after you arrive, I assume.

But the visa takes up to 4 months to process (though pre-paid fed-ex envelopes could help with that), so what if we really do have to present ourselves to the Kreisbuero within 2 weeks?

Well, it's worth a shot at any rate... I can't imagine that even in the worst case we would be kicked out of the country and never allowed to return, considering we had no other option!!

9
julsiebear,

I was worried about the same thing, but we do not have to give them the passport at least for the initial step. Here's the relevant document:

http://www.eda.admin.ch/etc/medialib...t_template.pdf

It seems that the we need to send in the visa only after we get approved, which I presume will be at the end of the 6-8 weeks (hopefully not 8-10 as in this document!).

I'm trying to get together all my documentation this week, send off for a visa, and then head over on a tourist visa until it all works out or I run out of time.

Good luck!

10
It's good to hear other people are in the same boat.

Canadian Student who received their acceptance letter very late to do the whole Visa process.

I've been calling around and basically the response I've been getting is.... From Uni: They don't care if you have a student visa or not, it's not their problem, however, they know of issues when one goes to register for residence permit that they get caught and kicked out.

From Embassy: You need to have a student visa to study, end of story. However I have looked around and have found that technically I believe you can study there for 3 months but not more (during your normal touristy stay) but the embassy official wouldn't say.

I'm also not looking forward to waiting till February to start my classes..

I'm at Bern btw.

11
Just noticed a nice little phrase on the Swiss consulate website.

From http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/...sformular.html

Now the questions are...

1.) Does this mean you can study in Switzerland without a student visa if it's for less then 3 months? Say 2 (while you wait for a student visa).

2.) Considering this is a page for Visa applications and for Canadian citizens, and Americans I assume, we don't need Visa's to enter the country so long as we don't stay for plus que 3 mois. So does the study for less than 3 months count for us, assuming question 1 is valid?

I'll email the consulate in Toronto tomorrow. Would call but I'm gone fishing and plus the girl there is seemingly getting fed up with me calling each day about the Visa process hehe.

12
Nice try but you can't sign up for a course longer than 3 months without the visa. The university will not accept you without the relevant permit.

13
Unless you've already paid and have been accepted to a university. Correct?

14
I can't find the edit button, I assume this is due to me not having a high enough post count.... but anyway.

In my case I'm in and will receive my student card this or early next week I presume. As for the rest of the people in this topic I believe everyone has said they were accepted. As far as the University is concerned (from telephone conversations) they don't care about such matters.

15
Just to dispel a few myths running around www.theinternet.com :

- immigration authorities can not care less if you have been accepted to a Swiss university, they are under no obligation to issue you a visa.

- you cannot travel to Switzerland while your visa application is processed; it'll look like you try to strong arm the system into giving you a visa by presenting them with a "fait accompli". Not that there aren't people doing it - but that doesn't mean that's if they don't get caught, you won't either.

16
Hi guys,

Fellow Canadian here who was in a somewhat similar situation. First off, charming any swiss official is impossible, they are such sticklers for rules you would think it was their personal mission in life not to let ANYONE into the country. Also none of them are sure about the rules and you will get multiple answers. However the penalties of not following the law are very strict and can get you banned from ever coming here so it is best to just follow the rules and hope it doesnt take too long.

When I got married last year (to my non-swiss husband who was working here) we assumed that I would come on my 3 month tourist visa and get it converted to a residence visa. This is a huge no-no. As long as a residence application is being processed, the applicant has to be outside the country (and apply from outside as well). I had to head back to Canada and deal with the embassy in Toronto. I am not sure if that rule applies to a student visa as well.

The best bet for you all is to apply for your student visa from outside Switzerland. After that, IF it is possible (previous paragraph), enter on the tourist visa and wait to get the student visa. Only when you know you have it, leave the country and re-enter on the student. Ofcourse this is not as simple as it sounds. Also, you can check out other threads on this but apparently you can ask for your visa to be sent to any nearby swiss embassy ex in germany/france and pick it up from there and re-enter switzerland.

The administration at UZH is absolutely catastrophic. This opinion is shared by atleast one of their professors who had to get involved in my application process. And they still took their time admitting me. However, I did go just last week to register myself and the process took all of five minutes. The lady only saw my passport and did not ask for my permit. I got the impression it was only for identity verification. I think they take the view that your visa status is not their problem as long as you are there in person to register and attend classes.

I hope this helps and I hope it works out for you guys. Good luck!

17
My personal experience as a Canadian (of the Québec variety) who just arrived in Lausanne 3 days ago.

1. I had been warned that it could take 3 to 4 months to get my visa.

Yet, it took only 5 weeks from the day I mailed my application (to the Consulat in Montréal) until the day my visa arrived.

2. I entered Europe via Iceland. An agent looked at my passport, saw my visa, grunted some kind of welcome and stamped my passport.

3. I then spent 5 weeks in Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway and Denmark). I never saw a border, nobody asked to see my passport.

4. On August 5, I flew from Copenhagen to Geneva. I thought for sure the Swiss would make a big fuss. Nothing! I never saw a customs agent.

5. This morning I registered at the "Contrôle des Habitants" at my commune (St-Sulpice, next to Lausanne). They asked to see my passport, they expected to see a stamp showing my date of entry into Switzerland. There was none. I told them I entered through Iceland. They saw the small hardly-readable stamp in my passport and said "ok".

6. Everywhere I go, everyone is very nice and very helpful. I think they like my French-Canadian accent.

Suggestion: Send in your visa application ASAP and there is a good chance you'll have your visa just in time.

Cheers!

18
More than likely this is because details of your visa were in her computer records so she could see you had one without seeing the hard copy. That's my guess anyway......

19
Yep!

You'll soon see how great it is to be a Quebecois in Europe! They all love us and are happy to find out we are not french! Seriously!

20
True, my brother applied for a study visa, I was his sponsor, both my husband and I have very good salaries and live in a house with three bedrooms (we are only 2), we had paid for the courses and health insurance, what did the Swiss authorities say? NOPE...