Is there a special Sunday shopping day tomorrow (28th May) where some shops are opne down Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich?
I'm sure there was last year, but I can't find any reference to it
Ta
GBN
Hi All,
I think you are being a little over-optimistic there :-) As far as I know the only time this is allowed is just before Christmas. The shops in a given area can't just decide to grant themselves an exception, it has to be approved by the town and often the canton. I'd love to be proved wrong - if you are right I'll go shopping there just to support the idea!
Mark
Found this off google:
http://cyprusair.whatsonwhen.com/sis...vent_id=112333
Says 29 May though.
Hey, I'm off into town just to see for myself... just in case... ;.)
Well ... (insert inappropriate phrase)..me!
Seems like you are onto something here. Could the impossible have happened in the name of some stupid bears? Have the needs of tourists finally been recognised to the point where they can actually spend their money on a Sunday, even if it is one day a year?
I'll be there too, just to see if it is for real!
Hi, there
It appears that the report you are referring to is an internet leftover from last year. Last year was the year of the teddy bears in Zurich city, and last year, May 29 was a Sunday. So, everything in this article points at last year. There are no bears in town per tonight, and there were no signs informing customers of Sunday opening hours, today. So, I am afraid you will be confined to the normal Sunday shopping venues.
Sorry, folks
Britta
Damn.... The normal Sunday shopping venues? You mean the main station? I think I'll skip it this time thanks
ah ha, we're still in the 19th centrury consumer society...
I always find it incredible just how archaic things are here, consumer-wise.
There is amazing economic potential to be unlocked here, but the public at large seems to want to make themselves jump through hoops as consumers as well as hold back the economy generally. The problem seems to be that as soon as anything is proposed that changes the status-quo, vested interests quickly run a scare campaign that the voters fall for.
Long term, Switzerland must surely face lower levels of economic growth as a result of the way businesses are forced to operate here. Not good when much of the rest of Europe is zooming ahead. I remember reading a report in a (Swiss) newspaper a couple of years back about how Switzerland could be pretty much the poorest country in the EU area by 2020 or thereabouts, if current economic growth trends continue. Anyone else know more about this?
Would it kill the powers-that-be to try opening one of those industrial-area shopping zones on a Sunday for a couple of months, just to see how it goes?
Gav
Hi Gav,
Careful now - I'll have to shift this thread to the complaints corner.
The long term slow economic growth of Switzerland is no surprise. It's been going along at a snail's pace for the last 15 years. In comparison to some first world countries like Australia and Ireland have been powering ahead for the last 15 years (well Ireland for less time than that, but still powering along). Of course it doesn't take a genius to extrapolate those numbers and figure out that unless growth picks up in CH it won't be long before they start sliding down the league table of developed nations. I've been banging on about this since I got here, but it looks like the idea is starting to gain more recognition in the main stream.
Of course the counter argument to the doom and gloom scenario is usually - yes but look at how rich Switzerland is, my salary is so much higher than it would be back home, etc. Such an argument deals with the present, but ignores both the future and the past (prior to WW2 Switzerland was a very poor nation). An interesting case in point - if salaries here are so much higher, then why on my last visit to Australia did I discover that my friends in the IT industry salaries' had now reached Swiss levels? When I first arrived this was not the case, but it is now. If their economy continues to grow at 4-5% per year versus Switzerlands 1% how will the picture look in another 5 years?
While I agree with your comments that Sunday shopping would boost the economy (along with many other needed reforms), I don't agree with the idea that Europe is forging ahead. European growth hasn't been fantastic, and the continent has many structural problems. Some countries such as the UK and Ireland have posted strong growth, but if you average this out over the whole of Europe the picture looks brighter than Switzerland, but still nothing to get excited about!
In other news - The Economist published their big mac index this week. Once again Switzerland was one of the most overvalued currencies. Disclaimer to foreign currency analysts. I'm not saying the big mac index is right or wrong, just pointing out that it came out this week
Don't be too quick to praise Australia - right now they are riding a commodities boom thanks to growing economies such as China and India. China especially is trying to suck as much iron ore out of the Pilbara as they can get their hands on.
And the Oz economy is starting to show cracks, with interest rates and housing construction under pressure. As for salaries, sure they are not good but in places like Sydney and Melbourne you cannot buy a decent house or apartment very cheap. New industrial relations laws leave workers very very vulnerable.
Going back to the Big Mac index, how does that prove a currency is overvalued? I thought it went more to proving the meeting point of high operational costs and consumer spending power, more than the relative currency value. Blegh! Who wants a Big Mac anyway.
Hi Litespeed,
Wasn't trying to sing the praises of the oz economy, merely trying to underscore Gav's point about other countries catching up, and the very slow rate of economic growth here. In Australia's case they've had a pretty good track record of growth for the last 15 years. Sure houses are more expensive, inflation etc, but what economy can grow so fast and so long without a few teething problems? I still think houses in Sydney and Melbourne are more affordable (to buy) than houses in Zurich. Industrial relations, or the more recent changes are more a product of the current governments legislation rather than an indicator of economic performance.
Let's not forget that while there is a commodities boom, it hasn't been going on for 15 years, and they were also posting good growth even during the commodities slump in the late 90's.
The bottom line is this - their salaries have been going up, ours haven't. We all know that nobody has really had any increase in salary, yet things like health insurance, transport etc continue to climb. This means that in real terms our salaries are dropping, and so too will our standard of living. I observed the opposite effect on my last visit to oz. Of course we could bury our heads in the sand and pretend like everything is perfect, but I think we know that it isn't.
Anyway - wanted to say some positive stuff to avoid having to move this to the complaints corner.
Gav - things are (slowly) getting better here. Let's take stock of what's happened in the last 12 months. The Swiss voted to allow the full range of products on Sundays in train stations. I remember when I used to visit Coop in Stadelhofen on a Sunday half of it was closed off and I wasn't allowed to buy soap because that was "non-food". This is no longer the case I can access the whole store on a Sunday. Ok, it's absolutely packed with people, but that's another thing! This vote was widely seen across Switzerland as an endorsement of the Sunday shopping concept, and a small step on the road towards Sunday shopping.
You see there is a curious thing that goes on. When we talk to Swiss about certain issues they often get Super-Swiss on us and sometimes express an opinion that they don't really have in order to defend the current situation, no matter how stupid it might be. I think the majority of Swiss either support Sunday shopping, or are quietly resigned to the fact that it has to happen sooner or later. It's just that they'll never admit it to you. So the wheels will turn slowly, and it will happen one day. Remember education? Despite defending it so much 80% voted last week to reform it. How many Swiss keep telling you how good their political system is? Yet 60% revealed in a recent survey that they thought their political system was in need of urgent and drastic reform.
Other improvements - have you noticed that the standard of food, both in restaurants and in supermarkets is slowly improving? More and more asian food is appearing, and things seem to be becoming a little more imaginitive and sophisticated. Maybe I'm just feeling more optimistic as the summer slowly inches towards us, but I think that there have been some changes.
Some concrete facts - Ikea will open until 8pm every Saturday starting from September. Carrefour and Jumbo are now opening later and later on Saturdays and during the week. Perhaps 2007 will see a debate about relaxing things further?
Sorry, wanted to answer this one separately. The Economist always points out that this index is very unscientific, but over the long term has had a surprising ability to predict trends - in other words overvalued currencies eventually lose value.
As far as the Swiss franc goes, the big mac index isn't the only thing/person who thinks the Swiss franc is overvalued. The strange thing about the Swiss franc is that it has a lot of emotional value attached to it as a "safe haven" currency, meaning that it trades higher than perhaps the underlying economic fundamentals would justify. Whether this continues going forward or not, who is to say.
I had a look at the big mac index a few years when I was deciding whether to continue to hold CHF or switch to another currency. At that time CHF was number 1 overvalued, and AUD number 1 undervalued (developed country). I figured the chance of those values getting closer was greater than them moving further apart. The gamble paid off - in the couple of years that followed the Swiss franc dropped 20% on the aussie dollar. In addition I got 5% on the AUD, compared to 0.25-0.5% on the CHF. Of course past gains are no guarantee of future performance, but I'm quite happy with the big mac - as long as I don't have to eat one
Of course if you are US$dollar bear then one has to consider what will happen to AUD when and if the US$ tanks under its huge mountain of debt. The AUD which has traditionally been strongly linked to the USD might go with it.
But if you'd like to debate economics maybe we should do it on another thread Maybe Richard and krlock will join us...
One thing to bear in mind with the Aussie dollar, is that it is linked to present bird flue region and that analysts' view is that when a pandemic looms, the Aussie dollar will be very hard hit, whilst investors might see the Swiss Franc as a safe haven (as usual).
Something to think about if you have a lot of AUD right now (soaking up the 5% INGDirect rate? ) in light of the recent WHO update on the deaths in that family that did not all have contact with infected poultry.
Mark, you missed my point.I wasn't actually doubting that the the Franclii is overvalued, I believe it is so we are in agreement there. I am simply doubting the Big Mac Index as a measure of relative currency strength. A Big Mac costs so much here not only because the CHF is overstrength, but the also because the domestic cost of putting that heart-attack-in-a-bun together. The killers here would be the cost of labour and protein ingredients.
Just to let you all know I read somewhere, believe the book "Living and Working in Switzerland" that shops are allowed to be open 6 Sundays a year, they just generally tend to use them all around Christmas.
It WILL change.
Infact, I believe this since the SBB banned smoking that change is possible and here in Switzerland it is happening quite fast it seems.
I came to Basel in 2003 and ALOT has changed since then:
1.Smoking banned in SBB
2.Rail City opened (and until 9pm daily)
3.Later opening times (shops in Basel can be open until 8pm if they chose)
4.There were 2 important AND successful votes for EU bilateral agreements (Shengen ect.)
5.From 1 small rack of DVD rentals in library to 8 huge racks FULL of new DVD's and more added monthly (soon it will be 1 floor for just DVD's )
6.NASN channel from cablecom (North American Sports...hockey,baseball,football..all LIVE )
7.Burger King opened (OK I like them better than McNasty's)
8.The bus now runs downtown until 3am on Sat
9.Cellphone costs have dropped dramatically (pay as you go) and are still falling
Yep things are a changing and 2007 should bring about another mass of changes.
Your right about all the changes BB, when i first came to Zürich there wasn't a single Indian place to eat and to go to a club for a drink or dance cost a small fortune. Maybe thats why i'm so laid back about things these days.
Yes Richard will join in...
As I am sure you are very aware the value of currencies is more dependent on the GDP deficit or surplus ie whether money is flowing into the country or flowing out. Given the Buy Swiss mentality of the average Swiss person it is hardly surprising to see that Switzerland fairs much better than the average western nation here. As has been said by many the problem with this model is the value peg of China. If they would let the Whan (sorry if it spelt wrong) float then the whole system would more or less align. Seeing as they are aware that this would have the effect of making Chinese goods and labour more expensive it does not fit in with their model so they are very reluctant to make this move.
Indeed if and I am fairly sure this is the case, the Chinese are clever they will use their currency to remove supply problems that they have at the moment. The problem with China is that their infrastructure cannot support the goods in goods out model that their production facilities can. ie they need to heavily invest in rail, port and airport facilities which by the way they are doing but of course these kind of mega-projects take years to implement and their economy shows no signs of slowing down...
Just my little two penneth worth...
But as you say Mark world economic issues have little as far as I am aware to the benefits of Sunday shopping...
i just wanna ask what is the deal with no shops open on sunday...and 24 hour...please everywhere in NSW there is 24 hour and sunday shopping...ok so not all shops arae 24 hour and sunday-ers....but come on..
Grrrr...dont swiss people have cravings for strange foods at queer hours of day??
Australia may seem to be powering ahead to the rest of the world, but here in Perth the state government are determined not to bring us in line with other states. For example:
- we don't have Sunday trading, except some shops in the touristy areas of Freo and Perth, CBD, and recently permitted.. liquour stores for some bizarre reason
- we don't have daylight saving (apparently the farmer don't want it so the rest of the workforce have to suffer) which creates a lot of frustration when one's head office is in Eastern States!
- house prices are now the same as Sydney - min 3 bed, 1 bath $300,000
- first home buyers grant of $7,000 is swallowed up, and some, buy the state's stamp duty on property
I could go on but where ever we live in the world there are always going to be +'s and -'s .. what would Poms whinge about if the world was perfect?!!!