Swiss Education Thread

Not wanting to derail the other conversations, setting up a separate threat to discuss Swiss education.

I’ve used chatGPT to generate a first summary to get an overview.

Strengths of the Swiss Education System

  • Multilingual Education
    Detail: Swiss students are typically required to learn multiple languages from an early age. This stems from Switzerland’s four national languages (German, French, Italian, and Romansh) and the need for effective communication across linguistic regions. Students often learn the primary language of their canton, a second national language, and English. This multilingual approach fosters not only linguistic skills but also cultural awareness and adaptability, preparing students for a globalized world.
    Impact: This multilingual competency gives Swiss students a competitive edge in international business and diplomacy, enhancing career opportunities both domestically and abroad.

  • Strong Vocational Education and Apprenticeship Programs
    Detail: Switzerland has a robust dual-track system that allows students, from the age of around 15, to pursue apprenticeships alongside school-based learning. This system integrates hands-on vocational training with academic studies, preparing students for specific trades while keeping open pathways to further education. Companies actively participate in training programs, ensuring that the curriculum is aligned with industry needs.
    Impact: This approach leads to a low youth unemployment rate, as students gain practical experience and skills that are immediately applicable in the job market. It also helps build strong industry-academic links, which supports innovation and economic development.

  • High Levels of Autonomy for Cantons
    Detail: Education in Switzerland is largely managed at the cantonal level, which allows each region to tailor its education system to local cultural, linguistic, and economic needs. This flexibility ensures that education is responsive and adaptable, fostering innovation and experimentation in educational methods.
    Impact: The autonomy can lead to more personalized and regionally relevant educational experiences, supporting diversity and inclusivity in the curriculum.

  • Balanced Focus on Academic and Practical Skills
    Detail: Swiss students have the opportunity to choose between academic, vocational, or combined educational pathways based on their interests and strengths. The system avoids the “one-size-fits-all” approach, offering specialized training for students inclined towards technical or hands-on careers while maintaining rigorous academic standards for those pursuing university education.
    Impact: This approach helps develop a versatile workforce, where practical skills and academic knowledge complement each other, addressing the needs of various sectors in the economy.

Weaknesses of the Swiss Education System

  • Inconsistent Standards Across Cantons
    Detail: While cantonal autonomy is a strength, it can also lead to inconsistencies in the quality and structure of education across Switzerland. For example, the age at which students are tracked into different educational pathways and the criteria for this tracking can vary significantly between cantons. This can result in disparities in educational outcomes and opportunities, depending on where a student lives.
    Impact: Families moving between cantons may face challenges in ensuring a smooth transition for their children, and students might experience unequal preparation for higher education or vocational training depending on their location.

  • Early Tracking Limits Flexibility
    Detail: Swiss students are typically tracked into academic or vocational pathways around the age of 12, based on their performance and assessments. While this enables targeted training, it may limit students’ ability to switch tracks later if their interests or abilities change. Students placed on a vocational track might find it more challenging to pursue university education later, even if they develop an interest in it.
    Impact: Early tracking can reinforce socio-economic divides, as children from more advantaged backgrounds may receive more support in academic pursuits, while those from less privileged backgrounds might be steered towards vocational paths prematurely. This can limit social mobility and personal development.

  • Dependence on Employers for Vocational Education
    Detail: The effectiveness of the vocational training system depends heavily on the participation of employers who offer apprenticeships. In sectors with fewer apprenticeship opportunities, students may struggle to find placements, affecting their ability to gain practical experience. Additionally, the quality of training can vary depending on the company and sector.
    Impact: If certain industries face economic downturns or shifts, there might be fewer apprenticeship spots, leading to imbalances in training opportunities and workforce readiness. It also puts pressure on companies to invest in training, which may not always align with their business priorities.

  • Complex Pathways to Higher Education
    Detail: While the Swiss education system offers multiple pathways, the route to higher education, particularly universities, can be complex and rigid. Students in vocational tracks who wish to pursue university degrees often need to complete additional bridging programs or attend specialized schools to meet the entry requirements.
    Impact: This complexity can discourage some students from pursuing higher education, especially those who may not have the resources or support to navigate the system. It can also perpetuate a divide between academic and vocational education, affecting long-term career flexibility.

  • Later Introduction to Reading and Writing
    Detail: In Switzerland, formal reading and writing instruction often begins later compared to other countries. Children are typically introduced to these skills around age 7, whereas many other education systems, such as those in the UK, USA, and France, start at age 5 or earlier. This approach is based on the philosophy that young children benefit more from play-based learning and social development in the early years.
    Impact: While this can reduce pressure on younger children, it may lead to initial delays in literacy skills. Some children might find it challenging to catch up if they need to transfer to an education system where earlier reading and writing skills are expected. Additionally, parents who prioritize early literacy may see this as a disadvantage, potentially creating a perception of lagging behind in fundamental skills.

Overall, while the Swiss education system excels in multilingualism, vocational training, and regional adaptability, it faces challenges in standardization, early tracking, and the flexibility of educational pathways. Addressing these weaknesses could help ensure more equitable opportunities and greater adaptability for students as they prepare for future careers.

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Interestingly, chatGPT also has an opinion on which schools are better (albeit not all are public schools I think)

Switzerland has several excellent public schools known for their high academic standards, facilities, and extracurricular activities. However, since the education system is managed at the cantonal level, the quality and focus of public schools can vary across the country. Some of the most highly regarded public schools are often located in the major cities and educational hubs. Here are a few notable examples:

  1. Gymnase de Morges (Vaud)

    Location: Morges, Canton of Vaud
    Highlights: Offers bilingual French-English programs and various specialized tracks, including science, arts, and sports. Known for its academic excellence and wide range of extracurricular activities.

  2. Gymnasium Rämibühl (Zurich)

    Location: Zurich, Canton of Zurich
    Highlights: One of the most prestigious public high schools in Zurich, known for its rigorous academic programs and strong emphasis on preparing students for university education. It offers a bilingual (German-English) program and has a reputation for outstanding science and humanities departments.

  3. Gymnasium Kirchenfeld (Bern)

    Location: Bern, Canton of Bern
    Highlights: Located in the capital, it is recognized for its diverse educational offerings, including a bilingual French-German track. The school is known for producing students who excel in academics and arts.

  4. Kantonsschule Enge (Zurich)

    Location: Zurich, Canton of Zurich
    Highlights: Offers a wide range of educational pathways, including the International Baccalaureate (IB) program. The school has a solid reputation for academic achievement and a comprehensive extracurricular program.

  5. Collège Rousseau (Geneva)

    Location: Geneva, Canton of Geneva
    Highlights: Known for a strong academic curriculum, this school is centrally located and has a diverse student body. Offers bilingual programs and prepares students for both Swiss and international university education.

  6. Gymnasium Muttenz (Basel-Landschaft)

    Location: Muttenz, Canton of Basel-Landschaft
    Highlights: Offers various educational programs, including a bilingual French-German option. The school has a focus on both academics and the arts, encouraging a well-rounded education.

  7. Gymnasium Lerbermatt (Bern)

    Location: Bern, Canton of Bern
    Highlights: Another well-regarded public high school in Bern, offering a variety of academic tracks and programs. It has a reputation for excellence in both sciences and languages.

  8. International School of Zug and Luzern (ISZL)

    Location: Baar, Canton of Zug
    Highlights: While technically a private school, ISZL partners with local public schools and municipalities, offering programs that integrate Swiss and international curricula. It serves as a great example of a collaborative approach to education.

Considerations

Bilingual and Multilingual Programs: Many of the best public schools in Switzerland offer bilingual programs, reflecting the country's multilingual nature. Schools in larger cities like Zurich, Geneva, and Basel tend to have more options for bilingual education, often in German-English or French-English.
Varied Curriculum: Public schools in different cantons might have specialized programs focusing on sciences, arts, sports, or technical education. The choice of school might depend on the student’s interests and future academic or career plans.

My views:

  • CONS: Kids start KG later than other countries. Starting date is mostly based on age and little flexibility to take into account the needs and skills of the individual child.
  • CONS: School and KG in particular is very short, often half-days. Reduced volume of teaching has consequences.
  • CONS: Lack of academic focus. Basic things like reading, writing and maths are done later and de-prioritised. Perhaps due to lack of time (see previous point)
  • CONS: Given the importance of language, schools introduce languages later than ideally. Here private KG are way ahead offering fully bilingual teaching from KG1.
  • PROS: Schools have good material resources as compared to schools in other countries
  • PROS: Class sizes are usually not too big
  • PROS: Kids encouraged to walk to school
  • PROS: Attention given to social development and outdoor activities
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Thank you! Especially as currently looking at KG :smiley:

My 6 year old is doing 3rd year of KG has he has some learning challenges.

My 4 year old started KG earlier as she was very bright and wanted to learn and start KG even though she was not old enough - she wanted to go to KG already at 2 years old and we put her in when she was 3 years old. The public system wouldn’t take her so we put her into a private bilingual KG (only a bit more expensive than the daycare we otherwise would have had to pay for).

In terms of academic teaching, I’d say that 1 year in the private KG is worth 3 years in the public one. The do so much more with the kids and have so much more time to learn (full day programme vs half-day programme).

I think the current public KG my son is in would be perfect if the switched from a half-day programme to a full-day one and used the additional time for academic teaching: reading, writing and maths.

Phil - how does it work with the private KG?

Do you pick one, then notify the gemeinde that your kid won’t attend the public one? Is KG even mandatory?

If I may be so crass, how much is the KG?

When you say bilingual, is that German:English? Or German:French?

Phil - how does it work with the private KG? Do you pick one, then notify the gemeinde that your kid won’t attend the public one?

I signed up for the private KG and they handled the communication with the Gemeinde.

Is KG even mandatory?

Yes.

If I may be so crass, how much is the KG?

Most have prices online, or you can ask for them e.g. see here:

When you say bilingual, is that German:English?

German/English. Though there are many that offer different combinations e.g. French/German, French/English.

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Please consider that gymnasiums in major cities and major educational hubs are than gymnasiums in small towns and rural areas simply because there are no gymnis in small towns and rural areas. The highly regarded public schools may happen to be the only ones :wink:

The proof seems to be in the pudding. The nation manages to consistently remain well-off with a high standard of living, which can only mean that a high percentage of general population is able to help expand the economy and productivity (with a bit of help from expatty-immigrant types. :wink: ) so must be well educated.

On the whole, schooling and further education, plus the apprenticeship system, works excellently.

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This is something I’ve been trying to find statistics on… e.g. how many of the C-level execs in Switzerland went to public school vs private vs expatriates?

I mean, a high standard of living is the minimum here. Even my dog walker earns 6k+ a month… but I would rather my kids have the option to move - and in many countries, not having a degree is an instant blocker to get a job.

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After I stopped working I saw one of the requirements for my vacancy was an university degree. Funny as I had never one.

Most of times.

Issue here is life and its surprises. Some trades require workers to use their body from head to toes. Accidents or repetitive stress injuries can compromise the plans of someone thinking a trade is a sure bet.

Can’t give many details but I’ve seen how a simple injury and the rejection of retraining derailed a life because we men feel proud and invincible at a stage in life.

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It can mean a lot of things. There are countries where their wealth comes mainly from valuable resources from the earth.

At an extreme example, the island of Nauru, in the Pacific, became the wealthiest nation on the planet per capita simply from selling it’s natural resource of bird sh1t.

It’s now one of the poorest but that’s another story.

I was amazed by how good that chat GBT summary was. My comments;
The Swiss system compares well internationally and this is reflected in the relatively good salaries and social standing of teachers. Unlike some countries, house prices do not depend on school catchment areas. The local school (primary and secondary) is funded by the local town, infrastructure is generally good everywhere. The grammar schools are funded by the Canton and only in the bigger cities is there a choice of grammar school - they may offer a “preferred profile” such as science or humanities. There are no league tables as there are no common exams to make comparisons, even within the same Canton - every school sets there own exams even if there is a Cantonal curriculum (there are attempts to harmonise the curricula across wider areas). This can cause problems if your child moves school. As always there are always exceptions to these general observations. Some Zürich towns are notorious for the high number of their students that make it to grammar school. The apprentice system works well if not perfectly (many students go on after an apprenticeship to get a degree) , it is just not attractive to many expat parents.
Not so sure about the good language skills here - huge differences across the country, but it is safe to say that the average Swiss student has better language skills than the average Kiwi.
Oh, sport is done mainly in local clubs, not in school,

Also makes it much more challenging if both parents want or need to work. The extra cost of daycare to cover the non-school hours can sometimes exceed how much the second parent earns.

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Small towns do have gymnasiums too. :slight_smile: (not all, but some)
Canton Zurich, this is a list from my memory

  • Wetzikon - small town (and the school is very modern and well equipped btw)
  • Urdorf - small town
  • Au (a newly built one), small town
  • Küsnacht, small (posh) town
  • Bülach (small town)
  • Uster - small-ish town
  • Winterthur (if you consider it small town; I don’t)
    And I’m not including any private school here and the list is longer I think…

I’ve heard that there are some additional bonuses of a private KG. Fir example, if it is convenient for the parents (like, one of them works only 3 days per week), a kid may attend only 3 full days instead of 5 half-days at the normal KG. And that they are much less strict about holidays during school time.

I am an educational consultant in Switzerland and would agree with most of the very generic points about local school. However, the answer doesn’t really take into account the diversity of the system. I am familiar with most cantonal education systems in Switzerland and the above does not apply to all cantons.
Also- what is your main goal? Integration or a seamless transition back to your country after some years?

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I agree with @Stefanie, the first decision to make is whether you are after integration or transition. We knew we wanted integration, so sent our child to a bilingual private daycare at first and then to state kindergarten.

Sure, ChatGBT will classify Gymnasiums as the best schools- these are the type of post- primary schools where you will find most high achieving students.
There is no school ranking in Switzerland because it doesn’t made much sense for Switzerland.
Since funding isn’t subject to property taxes or similar, schools are usually well endowed. The main quality difference is in school management and teachers and both of these are variables. I have seen several schools with a top reputation going down the drain after a great head was replaced by a shitty head and viceversa.
Knowing the area and the socioeconomic status and recent demographic developments might yield better insights.

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