Swiss Matura or IB

Family, Education, Health and Pets
61
I think the difficulty with the Swiss Matura and gaining UK university entry is the requirement for a really high mark across all subjects and an even higher mark in the key ones. The fact that some subjects are obligatory means that students who are not strong in these are are at a serious disadvantage.

At least for A’ levels the students can concentrate on the subjects they are strong in and forget about the rest.

Students who are really really strong in science for example but suck at German may be unable to get into a UK uni for a science based course simply due to being crap at German.

62
I understand, i do, I just took exception to the implication that A-levels are fairly certain easy. I find it strange that an education system doesn't seem to allow specialisms once a core standard has been achieved. But that's me.

63
They do allow specialisms in a way. You can choose to do a more science orientated or language orientated Matura so they do more in their areas of interest but the obligatory subjects remain obligatory and if you happen to be weak in one of those it could be problematic for UK university entry. It’s not an issue for Swiss universities which is what most students are aiming for.

A friend’s son in Belgium who wanted to study medicine in the UK needed over 90% across the board in all 10 subjects in the Belgian school leaving exams. Belgium has a very similar system to here.

A levels are certainly not an easy option.

There are lots of people who think they are too narrow and reduce the options for later on if you decide to change direction.

64
The cross channel paths are mainly the result of the historic mish-mash and my beef was based on our experiences in the Kantons of Zürich and Zug. I appreciate that some other Kantons probably do it better. We were just very happy that our kids made it with the IB/Matura directly into tertiary education directly. At times, this did not look certain and it was really difficult to motivate them and/or find a suitable direction in the Sek/Mittelschul/apprenticeship system. Those Fach and Mittelschul diplomas were sometimes (and possibly still are) only valid in the Kanton issuing them. And try to convince a fifteen year old that cook is fine, you can always become a brain surgeon if you find pastry doesn't do it for you.

I can really understand families choosing the IB/AP/Cambridge (possibly at massive financial cost) route which is more forgiving to a wider range of abilities than the Matura and generally confines the stress to a much shorter period.

65
I think that if you go for Matura you make a clear choice to go down the route of moving on to a Swiss university for your Batchelor. Oh the horror of having direct, unconditional access into ETH or EPFL :-) Two schools ranked in the top 20 in the world and that are almost tuition free.

I belive that the Swiss matura also prepares the kids to better survive in one of these schools.

So I really don’t see the problem. If you have done your matura in Switzerland you are clearly rooted enough to stay on for 3 years university. Then, with your Batchelor in hand, you can go to any university in the woryfor your master.

66
There's no incentive to score significantly above 4 (other than to balance grades below 4) for the Matura beyond individual ambition. Two of our year (out of about 50 who attained the Matura) scored 90, the perfect score. Nobody cared about that even a short time later, and they had zero advantage WRT chosing a uni. At best that skewes comparisons, at worst it makes them useless.

67
I agree, for further study in Switzerland. However, it's important if you want to study abroad - as you can see from earlier posts on the thread.

Getting a four overall is very challenging anyway, even for bright children who work really hard.

68
Both Fachhochschule and Mittelschule are federally regulated with the Cantons as executing and directly overseeing bodies, at least since the last big overhaul in 2006. I seem to remember that teacher diplomas, among others, were limited or that you had to pass an additional test if you wanted to teach in a different Canton, but AFAIK that's a thing of the past as well, the concept of regional pedagogic Fachhochschulen wouldn't work otherwise.

As for motivating a 15yr old, don't expect your child to embrace an apprenticeship if you think low of it yourself.

69
By far too few students study abroad to have much on an influence on the averages. And if an average of four is a real challenge you're not bright enough.

70

Yes, the changes have made it easier to cross cantons -the bizarre thing was that the cantonal qualification was sometimes easier to get accepted abroad than in Switzerland itself.

The apprenticeships clearly have an image problem at the moment with the difficulty finding suitable candidates and the hysteria in Canton Zürich about getting kids into gymi - part of this problem is justified (IMO) as the apprenticeship concept has changed from entry into a life-long trade to a stepping stone in a kids development ; logical from the youngsters point of view but problematical for small firms. From my personal experience many students going into kurzzeit gymi did so partly because they simply wanted to postpone decision making - several did an apprenticeship after the matura (the banks have special courses for Matura level entrants AFAIK) and many in our school went onto teacher-training even though a matura is not required to get into training college (primary and Sek level teachers in K. Zug). Some kids blossomed when they escaped the pressures of gymi and went to a Mittelschule. It is not a case of thinking lowly about apprenticeships -it is about finding ways for kids to fulfill their potential

71
There are simply too many apprenticeships offered for the number of kids leaving school. Cue the population pyramid, or pear, rather.

72
Reviving this thread a bit.

Some gymis/kantis/high schools offer bilingual Matura programs in German and English, so an immersion program of sorts, with the option for the students to take a Cambridge test (CAE or CPE) in their last couple of years of study.

Did your bilingual kids enroll in these programs? Pros? Cons? My kid would love to do STEM/research/presentations in English (as well as in German, that goes without saying ), but in our case I find it ridiculous to get a certificate of proficiency for one's native language.

73
I'm interested in this as well.

My kid has been in the Swiss system throughout - we chose it for integration. However, she (and we) are finding secondary school very difficult on the Progymnasium track; she can probably make it to Gymi but at what cost thereafter? We are finding the lack of care for students' well-being quite astounding, as if the students are there for the school and not the other way around ("Need help with something? Tough luck - maybe you shouldn't be in this track." - this seems to be the default response from the teachers).

The main goal seems to be making sure a low % of kids get to Gymi, rather than making sure the kids maintain their love of learning and develop their interests.

On the other hand, people love complaining about highly qualified expats "taking their jobs". Well, if the Swiss system allowed more people university education, maybe not so many expats would be needed for those jobs - just a thought, here.

Non-transferability of non-university degrees in Switzerland is a problem and I don't see an easy way around it. So we're starting to consider IB, and yes, Cambridge qualification in her native language. Let's see how the next two years play out.

74
There's also the issue that they haven't covered the subject matter to the same depth.

Before I started my studies in chemistry I had done 5 A levels in Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Biology.

Compare that to spending 30% of your time doing sciences in the Matura and you can somewhat understand the requirement for high marks (at least for the relevant subjects).

I would have hated the Matura or the IB as i can't write to save my life and am a 100% science specialist. Doing English literature to 18 would have killed me. Absolutely 0 interest. Languages not much better.