It has evolved to make sure people entering universities have a profound knowledge of sciences, math, languages and culture.
Yes I am and yes they are and your last sentence is total bullocks.
no, they are not.
Here can be found the essentials about the Maturität/maturité/maturita in Switzerland. For those ones reading one of your national languages the "Richtlinien ab 2012 gemäss neuem Recht" describe the requirements to get admission to the examinations.
As a teacher, for high school and Swiss Uni + having assessed exams for students who want to enter uni without a maturité, I totally agree with MacGregor's Daughter.
Your argument would, perhaps, be more persuasive if you didn't descend into the vernacular. Then again, it is difficult to make a lightweight argument carry greater weight.
At the end of the day we can all think what we like and the universities will put their own national examination systems ahead of those from other countries. Having taught in four different countries with different examination systems, and having taught children from most countries around the world, the only "country" ever to say that its examination system was not the best was Norway.
Brazilian students and parents reckon theirs is the best and the most challenging. The English say it is theirs. The Americans say that their AP is more challenging than others. And so on.
Guess what? The Swiss reckon that the maturite is the most challenging system going and the Swiss universities are the best in the world.
Of course it is and of course their universities are. Just as in every other country.
I'm not sure I want (or have time!) to engage in an online discussion of the similarities/differences and merits/drawbacks of various national systems for assessing the quality and completeness of pre-university education.
However, it does seem to me that with the introduction of university fees in the UK, US universities/colleges offering a Liberal Arts approach have tapped into a good market in the UK. Many high-achieving students who were "forced" to narrow down to 3/4 subjects at A-level welcome the opportunity to take up the study of a broader curriculum again. For some families who are already prepared to shell out huge sums of money, the difference in cost is not the biggest consideration. The possibility to broaden one's education and re-explore subjects given up at age 16, at an age of added maturity, is very attractive.
The Sutton Trust is among the more notable programs for making an education at one of the top-ranked US universities a possibility for a high-achieving, but oerhaps economically disadvantaged, student who might otherwise be Oxbridge bound.
Not had any experience with the Swiss maturite but I find it very hard to believe that it's equivalent to 11 A levels.
Nobody in the UK takes 11 A levels so the notion that everyone who passes their maturite is some sort of Einstein level genious seems unlikely
Indeed I've worked with many PhD level swissies and they are no better or worse than their foreign counterparts
I don't think anyone is trying to imply that passing the matura equates being Einstein level genious, more that it ensures a broader knowledge base at a higher level of study.
Having assisted at Fribourg medical student practicals and acted as co-examiner, I'm not that surprised. I'd come across many students who'd switched to medicine having failed other courses and they were, quite frankly, not up to the task.
Also bear in mind that to study medicine in the German-speaking area, the students have to pass the Numerus clausus exam. This also applies to Fribourg, as they only offer the 1st 3 years, after which the students might conclude their studies in Bern, Zurich etc.
At UNIL, first-year failure is between 50-80%, depending on the faculties. HEC has the highest rate of failure, and medicine is close behind.
In my opinion, this is a huge hypocrisy, as this is a numerous clausus in disguise. Many students 'lose' 2 years (second failure is definitive) which they could have spent doing something more useful.
@Turborg
Mr MacGregor's Daughter and Mélusine have said it all Thank you.
Yes the Maturité Suisse really is the equivalent of 11 A levels.
I don't doubt that the maturitė Suisse is challenging but to say that it is equivalent to 11 A' levels is ridiculous.
There is no way that the students could study 11 subjects to the depth required to pass at A'level.
The two systems are completely different and there are merits to each. The Swiss system gives a much broader education with the opportunity to specialise taking place much later whereas in the UK students narrow their subject choices at a much earlier age.
Having gone through the UK system myself and studied 4 subjects to A' level all scientific based (biology, chemistry, physics and maths) plus music in my free time and seeing my son now going through the Swiss system in the Matura stream I can see the pros and cons of each.
There is however no way that anybody could study for 11 A' levels simultaneously.
I certainly do not wish to get into a debate. I'm not familiar enough with other systems (other than the Maturité and the IB).
The equivalences with other countries may be found on all university websites (quite surprising!).
Sorry MGD, I thought you agreed, I must not have read you correctly.
How frustrating, I can't find the equivalences indicating to how many A-levels the Maturité corresponds.
Since I can't find this info, I rest my case, you must be right.
Agreed.
I made the mistake of taking the same 4 A-levels and I worked my bollocks off. There is no way my daughter, in her first year of college, has more than twice the workload I ever had.
Surely all Universities "weed out" throughout the course, not just the first year. In the UK, depending on the subject studied, you have 2 or 3 attempts at each exam, fail them all and you are out! Although you really need to pass first time as you can't score higher than 40% on the re-sits.
In light of my personal experience, I believe Tuborg is right.
It is hard and thus unfair to compare different educational systems. If I am not mistaken, I think this was one of the reasons of why the IB program was introduced, to allow for uniformity.
I have trained many Swiss medical residents and they were not more nor less prepared than their, say, French peer.
What I find, nevertheless, disheartening is the fact that if indeed Swiss Matura is that good, how come that 50% of students (who most likely have this diploma) fail after their first year of medical school?
Interesting debate about what is more difficult.
It is certainly true that it is more difficult to get to university with IB than A-levels here in the UK as the IB scores required are much higher than the A-level equivalent.
I'm not sure if it is that universities think A-levels are the best, just that they don't understand the degree.
Does anyone know how international Universities rate the Swiss Maturité?
Two different ways to skin the same cat:
The UK system only allows the very best candidates (based on having probably all "A's" at A-level) to start a medical degree. The rigorous selection process weeds out the vast majority of those who probably wouldn't make it through the degree course, so only a very small minority drop out as the course continues.
From what I understand, the Swiss system seems to allow almost anyone with a base level Maturité pass to start the course, but the first year is tough and the filter comes at the end of the first year.
The Swiss system seems to give an advantage to those who for one reason or another didn't do so well at school to pull their finger out and show what they can do. However, putting large numbers of young adults where a significant minority will fail through a year (or even two if they repeat) of uni seems quite wasteful to me.
If the examinations all over te worl are fairly equal and there is not much difference between them, as you claim, then why can not eveybody study anywhere in the world without further entrance exams?
I would not say the the Swiss Matura equals 11 A- levels, but certainly 6 or 7 of them, including mandatory math, German, French, English, one natural science, one major subject of choice and one additional subject in the last two years in which they have written and oral exams, plus regular lessons with tests in the other subjects throughout the year. A-level students are only taught in their A-level subjects, which means 3 or sometimes 4.
Well, generally, they do. Except for a small number of emerging countries whose examination systems are not trustworthy.
University of Cambridge - Maturite requirement is 5.1 overall with 5.5 in three subjects. A level equivalent is A*A*A. IB requirement is 40-41 points (for maths).
University of Oxford - Maturite requirement is at least a 5.0 in each subject. A level requirement is A*A*A. IB requirement is at least 38 points with 6 and 7s in Higher Levels.
ETHZ requirements: 3 A Levels with a minimum of grade B in Maths, a science and a language.
EPFL requirement: 3 A Levels with at least one grade A.
ST Gallen: 3 A Levels.
What I also said was that universities tend to rate their national examination systems higher than those of other countries. That may be, because, in some countries the national examinations curriculum is written and tested by university lecturers.
What I am not saying is that the Maturite is a weak examination or curriculum. What I am drawing issue with the is the belief that it is vastly superior to other examination systems. Your experience may tell you that it is. My experiences tell me that it isn't.
As can be seen above, Swiss universities consider 3 A Level passes at relatively good grades (not even A*) as equivalent to a maturite. Hardly the 6 or 7 (never mind the 11) that is being claimed.