Switzerland fertility falls to record low

[ShirleyNot]

@Aargauer

The really good, mentally stable, unused, well raised and well adjusted people - both men and women - are out of the dating pool by at latest 25 - even earlier. Many people are out at 20 or even out before they’re an adult, since they already have their future partner secured. If you want kids, there is 0 benefit to waiting longer than you absolutely have to, before you get them. Your genetic material isn’t getting better the longer you wait and this is far more important than to suck your bosses cock for a promotion…

While I find some aspects of socialism appealing or sensible, this is a step too far for me.

[Aargauer]

@Axa

There could be children but since they come from “garbage” parents they are unwanted. So, the outcome of chasing perfection is…extinction

I mean, we are not a hive mind - my arguments would be optimized on if we were - have kids young with the best possible people that can have kids - I’m not advocating to have this legalized or anything, but the process at large seems to imho lead to this outcome, wheter that hurts feelings or not, is not that relevant.

@Axa

The curious part is that there’s plenty of great adults out there that come from not so great parents.

Sure - and there are many shitt people coming from great parents, but that’s just in the nature of things. It still doesn’t invalidate statistical tendencies - if your parents are fat, you’ll likely be fat. If your culture is more violent, you’ll statistically also be more violent, etc. For the individual, this doesn’t have to be true, but in general, it is.

@Axa

But, applying this to life will end in serious hurt. Be careful.

I’m not attempting to controll anything of anyone - if 2 people with trisomy 21 want to make kids, they can go ahead, no one is stopping them… If a person wants to have kids at 60 she can - I’m just stating how I feel about this, not what should be a gneral policy.

@ShirleyNot

While I find some aspects of socialism appealing or sensible, this is a step too far for me.

I don’t think that’s socialist - and I also don’t think that I’d want to use socialist methods to solve said problems.

@3Wishes

Human beings are complex creatures.

Yes and no - a lot of complex problems can be broken down to very simple action imperatives. Later kids = less good genetic material getting passed down = slow degeneration of humanity in many aspects.

[ShirleyNot]

@Aargauer

Later kids = less good genetic material getting passed down = slow degeneration of humanity in many aspects.

It’s nature vs nurture, though. Most people these days are still growing up and maturing in their early 20s, establishing a career, discovering the world, etc. If you bring kids into a world when both parents are evidently immature, the kids will suffer.

Almost all the friends/colleagues I grew up / worked / socialised with who married in their early 20s were divorced and hated each other by 30. Friends who married late 20s or early 30s are mostly still together with well-rounded kids. But that’s just my experience with a friend contact group of perhaps 70 or 80 people if I factor everyone in around the world.

[Roxi]

@Axa

So, the outcome of chasing perfection is…extinction

That’s actually a big aspect of the issue: 10-15% of the children get killed in Europe including CH, one quarter in the US.

Killed aka aborted.

[Bowlie]

@Roxi Fact or wishful thinking.

[omtatsat]

such bullshit

[Roxi]

Fact, obviously.

[Axa]

@Aargauer

I’m not attempting to controll anything of anyone - if 2 people with trisomy 21 want to make kids, they can go ahead, no one is stopping them… If a person wants to have kids at 60 she can - I’m just stating how I feel about this, not what should be a gneral policy.

One thing is the older the parents the higher the chances of an extra chromosome. And whole different thing is parents above 25 are traumatized garbage whose kids will be garbage. You’re smart enough to see the difference. The fun thing is that the youngest children from families with several children come from older parents.

When I mentioned serious hurt, it was not about the society. It’s that these ideas will come back to bite you sooner than later. Then, the choice will be between changing ideas or becoming another member of the self-hating adults club.

[Phil_MCR]

I think it will become increasingly rare to be parents at age 25. With increasing numbers going to higher education and women entering the workforce, I think late 20s and early 30s is likely the youngest time you’ll typically have kids.

As mentioned earlier, this delay in having children will naturally shift downwards the population growth rate.

[Aargauer]

@Axa

When I mentioned serious hurt, it was not about the society. It’s that these ideas will come back to bite you sooner than later. Then, the choice will be between changing ideas or becoming another member of the self-hating adults club.

I am married and am not planning to divorce - if my wife wants to divorce me, she can do that - I just take the L in misjudging her commitment and move on with my life

@Phil_MCR

I think late 20s and early 30s is likely the youngest time you’ll typically have kids.

Which also means more very late kids (35+) aka degradation of our genetic material for absolutely no reason… Humans really are stupid sometimes.

[Phil_MCR]

I saw this documentary on fertility/sex/love in Japan and frankly was gobsmacked. If this is our future, we’re screwed!

[3Wishes]

I just saw your post today, Phil. Wow. Reminds me of the movie Rental Family. When I saw the movie, I thought it was sort of a crazy Hollywood idea. Yet here you are with a documentary that shows it’s actually a real thing.

[Bowlie]

Well perhaps it is time that we envision different forms of “marriage”. Such as a line marriage from “The moon is a harsh mistress”.

For some reason today’s young adults don’t appear able to bond together in a traditional relationship.

Perhaps arranged marriages, or matchmakers or trial marriages?

Whatever we are doing now just doesn’t seem to be working.

[bossybaby]

@Phil_MCR that brings new modern meaning to “ianfu.” (!!)