Tesla EV discussion

Tesla found partially liable for fatal 2019 crash involving driver-assistance technology; jury orders $200 million in damages

A jury found Tesla partially liable for a fatal 2019 crash in Key Largo, Florida, and slapped the company with $200 million in punitive damages…

After less than a day of deliberation, the eight-person jury ruled that Tesla’s driver assistance technology was partially to blame for enabling the driver, George McGee, to momentarily take his eyes off the road and then failing to warn him the road was ending. McGee’s Tesla plowed into a young couple standing off the road, killing 22-year-old Naibel Benavides Leon and gravely injuring her boyfriend, Dillon Angulo.

The jury also awarded $35 million to Benavides’a mother and $24 million to her father and $70 million to Angulo.

The Benavides Leon family and Angulo sued the driver and reached a settlement. The plaintiffs then sued Tesla in a federal lawsuit in 2024, alleging that the company is to blame because it allowed its technology to operate on a road it was not designed for. Tesla said it was not liable for the crash because the law and its owners’ manual state the driver must be in control, no matter the feature engaged.

I guess this rises the bar for “full self-driving”.

Also, Tesla has settled before trial in other controversial crashes. This time, it seems there were feeling cocky. With this precedent, what will happen to the other open cases? And future cases that will accummulate because people keep using the system?

Ohhh, chickens are coming home to roost.

Mary “Missy” Cummings was invited to testify in this trial in Florida. Mrs. Cummings is a Dr. in Systems Engineering, ex F/A-18 Hornet pilot, ex senior advisor of US NHTSA and currently professor at George Mason U.

It is precisely the time she collaborated with NHTSA that earned her an online hate campaign back in 2021. Tesla fanboys went full zealot at the time. People dies, prosecutors come, Tesla fails at settling with relatives, trial comes and Dr. engineer who got unwarranted online hate is invited to testify…dropping bombs even after retiring from fighter jets.

Mary “Missy” Cummings, an engineering professor at George Mason University, told jurors in Miami federal court that the Tesla owner’s manual, which contains critical warnings about how the system works, is difficult for drivers to access.

She also said that prior to the crash, the company was having problems with drivers ignoring computer-generated warnings and had not embraced so-called geo-fencing already in use by other car makers to block drivers from activating driver-assistance functions on roads they’re not designed for.

“Do you have any opinion as to why Tesla chose not to geofence its tech in 2019 and create a safe operational domain when other manufacturers were?” Cummings was asked by a lawyer for the plaintiffs, Brett Schreiber.

“I believe they were using that as a way to sell more cars,” said Cummings, who previously served as a senior adviser at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-07-16/tesla-failed-to-stop-autopilot-misuse-safety-expert-testifies

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My husband has a s/h Tesla Model S which he traded for with a friend. He is a total Tesla fan and even pestered me into spending some of our savings to buy Tesla shares about 8 years ago.
Several things annoy me about Tesla policy:

  1. The lack of official service centres, I think there are only 3 in the entire country.
  2. The fact that when you call a service centre, they only refer you to the app - and mostly you can’t understand the person you are speaking to because their German is so bad.
  3. The fact that there is apparently only one spare parts depot in Europe - in Lyons, France and they work with typical French relaxez-vous and delivery of the most common parts can take up to a month
  4. The fact that many normal garages / auto electricians will not touch a Tesla because, if they are not “approved” and need to order a part, they can be sued by Tesla or the order is refused.
  5. The fact that using a “normal” 12V battery instead of the more expensive official Tesla battery, will cause that 12V battery to begin to fail (does not charge properly) after about 6 months because of the lack of information received by a special sensor in the Tesla electronics system. In addiiton, the said Tesla sensor gives false information about the driving distance of the remaining power, usually about 45 km “off”.
    I drive a 9 year old Citroen C5 which has (touch wood) never let me down. Him on the Sofa is always pestering me about getting a Tesla but I don’t want to. I’ll keep the Citroen as long as it gets me around, on short journeys and long (e.g. up to an expo in Hamburg with one petrol stop), without having to stop to charge the blasted battery every couple of hours.
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Wait! A Citroen made by those relaxez-vous French people?

Good luck with that.

PS Lyon is singular, not plural.

Seriously, try living in the modern age and not back in 1980s.

Next you’ll be telling us that Alfa Romeos are rust buckets.

How about providing some (up-to-date) evidence to support your claim?

I forgot my sarcasm smilie.

Even so, it’s a bit tired and old.

What is? I was just repeating what the previous poster had said. Granted I should have indicated sarcasm.

It’s Lyon in French and Lyons in English.

It has nothing to do with being singular or plural.

Technically, Alsace. Know your stereotypes better :wink:

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We lived in Alsace for years…very hard-working people. Dare I say Teutonic?

I’ll just compliment their Pinot Blanc, Crémant d’Alsace and kids being basically bilingual in FR and DE which makes them extremely competitive in Switzerland. And yes, hard working.

It wasn’t my stereotype ! I was quoting @helevetica2024!

Oh dear!

There are 9 Service Centers in Switzerland, in addition to sales and distribution centres.

In my dealing with Tesla since 2018 I have never had a conversation or face to face contact in anything but English.

I would expect a VW, BMW Mercedes etc to be serviced by an approved outfit. The more so with a Tesla as it’s essentially a computer.

Tesla introduced superior Lithium Ion 12v batteries in 2021. They are vastly superior to conventional lead acid ones - it‘s an advantage. VW had to recall all 12v batteries for beefier ones.

I have driven round France, Germany and the UK a number of times in my Model 3 and now Model Y without a glimmer of a problem and the range indicated has been generously accurate always.

And the torque of a Tesla (and other EVs) along with one-pedal driving makes ICE cars so last century. You don‘t to stop every couple of hours - the battery will outperform your bladder…

Hopefully, for Tesla, Musk’s new incentive package will fix their sales problems or create other revenue-increasing activities

There is a lot to fix in brand loyalty.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-brand-loyalty-collapsed-after-musk-backed-trump-data-shows-2025-08-04/

Tesla China sales are still drifting down

The car was not using FSD but basically TACC (with lane-keeping).

From what I read, he was actually pushing down the accelerator-pedal. If you do this, the car will warn you that it won’t break!!!

Of course, if you have your head below the dashboard, you won’t see that warning…

There hasn’t been a deadly or even major crash with (s)FSD for a very long time.

1 - there may have been only 3 back in 2017.
2 - that is true. You cannot call. Unless you have a Roadster. Then you get a phone-number. Because there’s no app for the Roadster. But it makes sense as with the App, they know exactly which car you opened a ticket for.
3 - there’s multiple depots. Semi-recently, a big one was opened near Ulm or so. You may confused the situation with back in 2017, when Tesla’s main hub was Tilburg, NL.
4 - only for stuff that involves high-voltage components. Mechanical stuff, every garage can fix.
5 - they switched to 16V Lithium-Ion batteries in 2022, when the upgraded the computer to AMD Embedded Ryzen. These are apparently very durable and are topped up from the HV battery when needed.

How many shares did you buy in 2017, BTW? Did you keep them?

My mistake. Indeed, it was Enhanced Autopilot, this one:

We have only actually bought 90 from our bank (UBS) over the years but Tesla kept splitting them, so now we have exactly 1,000. And yes, we still have them. The “Depotführung” costs around 1,200 Fr per year, but they are tax free until you sell them.

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