Unemployment declaration start date (EU/B permit) late - will previous month be lost?

Visas, Permits, Passports and Naturalization
21
.snip

What strikes me when I read things like this, is how did you guys ever manage to earn so much money if you are evidently so disorganized, so lacking in foresight and planning, that you find yourself in such a situation

after just 20 days without an income?

Surely you must have known in advance that you would be expected to finance brief (~1 month) income outages yourself? Did it not ever occur to you that one day you might be out of work, and thus certain steps - even the minimalist approach of keeping one month's money in reserve - would be prudent?

You were earning 120 grand a year, but you have no savings, your credit is maxed-out, you have no liquid assets, and you demand a tax-payer bailout from day 1.

Were you an investment banker by any chance?

22
This is the best advice in the entire thread. Heed it.

23
You don't sound much like a nuclear physicist either.

24

Hello. Thank you, I know how *lucky* I am. It is indeed lots of money. Beware. Where there's a lot of money there is HUMILIATION, TREATING LIKE DIRT, RACISM and BOSSing.

You might say, who cares, as long as you get this 70% (not 80%, 70% plus 125 CHF for each kid).

For starters, they do EVERYTHING in the book NOT to give you these money, including misinformation, bullying, boss you around (they gave me an "advice" to go seek a job from an office but the hint was "you better do it or") and you must pay attention to all those FINE LETTERS.

EXAMPLE

You MUST seek employment (attention: not MAY but MUST) out of your last job area of expertise. If you were a business analyst working with Excel and macros, if you put it in your CV, they make you look for programming! And usually this means downgrade in salary.

AND (I don't know if you know this) there's a level for each job, like, level 1 level 2 level 3 etc (level 6 or 7 being the most profficient/difficult tasks) and if your last job was level 4 and you apply for level 6, EVEN if you did 3 PhDs in quantum mechanics, you're rejected. That's why is VERY important to watch and try to find the best job (by objective, not merely by money) available, while RAV is only looking how to GET RID OF YOU.

Obviously, you look the cheese but not the trap.

Just a few things more: you should apply to works where are 2 hours each way away from your muncipality. That's 2 hours to go and 2 hours to come back. Meaning: if you're in Zurich, and they find someone to hire you in Basel (1.5 hours to go, another 1.5 hours to return) you *MUST* accept.

Now tell me.

Really.

How lucky you think I am...

PS

I haven't seen any unemployment benefit yet because they're checking my application (all is correct, all papers as they asked them for, I also have this in email by them) and on top of that depending on your income you get penalised.

Meaning: if you have more than let's say 120,000 CHF annual income before you become unemployed, EVEN if you have had forsee that you had to go there on day 1 (most people not...) you get penalised with 20 days. 20 DAYS OF BENEFITS thrown away just because you have been declared yourself well paid.

And I have more info on other things as well... so, believe me, sometimes it's better if you don't expect anything and you can just go on and find something to survive, because here they pretend that you're covered but at the very end, you're a prisoner.. THAT'S why people go out to find a job like crazy - otherwise everybody would just stay in RAV for those 1.5 years and try to find a job only the last half year...

25
Thank you for the quote. If you mean how *stupid* I am to rely on services by RAV, indeed I am. If you would like to check on me, sure, I can tell you I have 20+ years in banking, and 15+ years in programming (with many certifications, Microsoft MCPD, working with SQL Server 2k-2008 and VS 2005-2010) I know I'm not an exception of course, or a nuclear physicist as you prompt, but I'm definetely not the average gardner looking to do the lawn (no offense)

The thing here my friend, no matter your IQ or even your capital adequacy ratios, is dual fold:

1. If you know German (if not...........)

2. If you know somebody (if not, I hope you answer yes above, if not.......)

26

For those who continue to state "try to work with the system and not against it" I answered already above.

There's nothing you can do against the system, you only wait until your unemployment benefits arrive (penalised, scrutinised whatever).

As for trying to find a job, try to imagine my leaps: *I AM*

The greatest difficulty is the German language, I started myself couldn't wait the RAV to send me to lessons (they told me they will, who knows)

After that you have to deal with a MAJOR crisis in job area, you might see the ads but believe me you don't know what's happening, I'm talking about : not only they ask for incredible things, but if you dare to say yeah ok, I can do this, try me, they end up asking you for something that you don't have just to reject you (usually it's 1. language, 2. age, 3. lack of working more than 5 years in the sector they want, 4. ultimately, they offer you a ridiculous amount like 80-100,000 a year which send you dead in the water)

What is working *with* the system??????

Go get a job for 3,000 CHF (I'm with MA, I'm not young of course but not any just-came-on guy) and then how to pay the rent which is already around 2,000 not mentioning the insurance (and the *BAD-BAD-BAD* habit we all 4 have in the house to EAT EVERY DAY )

Or maybe...

just maybe...

maybe maybe...

go OUT of the country, as a public employee suggested me, very very politely, calmly and with a sense of "think about it.." tone...

27
Sorry for the typos, we're all very exhausted, we have 87 CHF and no food, and actually we're living on friends support. Try to imagine this before you give your next advice.

Also, we don't have a car, and tommorrow we start selling some staff at ricardo because we simply cannot wait the unemployment benefit since Feb 6 that I enrolled to RAV till now..

Again, sorry for everything, typos, tone, all, sorry and thanks for all the replies.

I don't think I will reply anymore, unless if it's for anything that really matters and not phiosophical things like "work with the system" etc

All the best and good luck to all of you seeking a job or passed throu this before.

28
Pretty ridiculous, true. Almost twice swiss average wages but you're an expat after all, how dare they?

29
You have 87 CHF right now, but you say 100k is ridiculous and you reject it?

What offer will you accept?

30
He's waiting for this guy to resign: 150K net (200K gross) in Geneva?

31
You can also apply for a job as a brain surgeon if you want, it's not your normal field so that is extra brownie points.

32

Seriously, I am sympathetic to your situation, having been there and having to borrow from friends, but you need to learn a little bit more about the RAV before you go off on how bad it is.

1. Not everyone gets the German lessons, I didn't. So you have a very nice counselor if you got them who is trying to give you the skills you need to be re-employed.

2. If you get offered and take a job for 100,000 (which by the way is a lot more than what some of us on here get who have families so please don't spit on it), but your old salary was 140k so your RAV pay outs have been 112k. Guess what? If you take the job the RAV will pay that extra 12K a year (and sometimes you can get more through other premiums/discounts - health insurance etc). So it actually works in your favor to take these jobs most of us would be dying to have. I'm on a temporary contract right now and I can promise you I would do anything for a permanent one at any price, 100k salary and a permanent job would be like winning the lottery. And I have a degree. You sound horribly entitled to me and I think that is why less people in this thread have been sympathetic to what is a bad situation for you. You have to keep in mind quite a few of us on EF have less money and may be in just as dire straits but don't talk about it. If I told you what I got from the RAV, it isn't even HALF what you cited in an earlier post and I was still glad to get it.

3. I was told to move back to Lausanne by my RAV counselor, which is why they wouldn't pay for German. It sucks but that is how it is: reality is I can probably get a job in Lausanne quite easily. You can call it racism if you want, but we all get it. In the state of this economy, you don't think Switzerland is hurting? My RAV counselor told me that to avoid months of humiliating job searches. Maybe, just maybe, s/he is trying to spare you that.

Have you had the RAV induction class yet? Come back to us when you have. Like everything, it is a system that needs to be learned,but learning the rules will keep you from "getting screwed."

33
If the new job pays out more than the insurance there is ZERO top up, 1 chf a month less & 70/80% of balance upto the limit is topped up.

I work freelance and normally earn above 70% , doing 1 hour of overtime can tip the balance !

34
exactly- that is why i said if someone's insurance is rav 112 but the new job is 100 then that 12 k gets paid out.

i have heard anecdotal evidence of people getting paid more than the 80% by some bizarre calculation but it is definitely an exception...

35
Mr Nick, you came here looking for help and advice, which many EF members have given you, we cannot share your anger, but we are sympathetic to some extent.

Many of us do not even earn 8'000 CHF, so on that point we have difficulty being sympathetic. I was also in this very same situation, I had 2 teenagers at home studying, and my contract for CHF 4'200 per month was not renewed. I was over 65 so I could not get RAV unemployment benefit! I applied for Social welfare and was pushed around and I received nothing until 6 months later when I received help from central government, back paid for 6 months. This was so much money that we could afford a cheap holiday to Spain!

The RAV is tied by the extensive laws. They are not personally cheating you, or making life difficult. If you had done a bit of research and applied earlier enough, things would have turned out differently. You talk of Unia paying you: I assume you mean that Unia is administrating the Arbeitslosenkasse (Unemployment Fund) for you.

oh and this question was asked on 9th January Questions about registering late to RAV

.

36
At 80 k no top up to 112k without children

At 77k 24.5 k top up, very simple calculation !

You only get a top up if your below 70 / 80 %

So over 90 % us possible or 94% with children

37
top up from 100 is where i was doing my math, not from 80? Numbers confuse me . What I meant was if his old salary was 140k and his rav at 80% was 112k, then if he took a job making 100, which is like 70 percent ish, then he would get topped up to 80, 112k. Is this incorrect?

Anyway since everyone on EF today is gigging me for the pedantic details is- point is dude gets topped up for taking what his highness considers a sh*tty job and if he read up a bit on the RAV before he came on EF and started complaining to people who currently have it and have had it worse off than he is, he would know that.

38
His old salary is irrelevant as its above the maximum insured salary, so the calculation is 70 or 80 % of insured , or in other words what his payout would be . The calculation only occurs if he earns less than the insurance payout . At the rav intro Your informed that you never loose out by working or earning more, which is in many cases incorrect.