Hi everyone! i like kids, but do not have any of my own, so i do not have a lot of experience dealing with problematic behaviour in children, hence i seek the matured thought-through advice/opinion of the awesome EF folks
I will be brief: on my way home last week, i bumped into a young boy not older than 8, who made a clearly racist gesture at me. i un-threateningly told him that it was impolite, he just grinned and said,"OK." i then left.
this is not a rant and i am not upset, which is why i located it in the daily activities area. i accept that kids do not know better. my question is, in the swiss context and as a foreigner, can i possibly contribute towards preventing such behavior? should i have insisted on seeing his parents, sit him down and have a long man-to-child talk, threaten to kidnap him and make him learn chinese? i mean, he obviously learnt the racist gesture from somewhere.
for the record, i do not know for sure that he is swiss. but i guess for discussion's sake, i would assume that he is.
request: i would appreciate if "swiss are racist" comments did not appear at all
thanks! -hsiang
Actually, a very interesting post!
I have a friend of mine who is Irish. Recently I met her parents and he told me of a recent story. He was out golfing early in the morning and caught some kids picking Magic Mushrooms in the woods. He told me that he said his first comments to the kids was "I'm going to have to take you to your parents", even though he didn't know the kids. Something the kids were terrified of. Try that where I grew up in the Fens, then he ran the risk of being beaten up.
So what does one do? I believe firmly, that kids mimmic their parents to a degree. Were I to have made such a gesture or comment when I was young, then my parents would have flipped out and I would have been in an enormous amount of trouble.
On the other end of the scale, a friend of mines father was at the cinema and had a child kicking his seat and generally behaving less than one would expect. After the parents did nothing to stop this, he turned round to the mother and said "madam, kindly discipline your child before I am forced to". The mother finally reigned in her kid, but at the end of the day, if a child in my care were to do something as unsocial as that, they would have been stopped.
In all the areas I've lived in, there are lots of young kids (up to mid teens) who appear to lack some form of role model and latch on to the "gangsta" ethos - "I'm hard, you will respect me even though I've done nothing to deserve it". In most cases, it appears to be because they lack a responsible role model.
So what do we do? Say something? Or seeing as the parents are probably of the same mindset, just walk away?
Kids pick up stuff from all over, and at that age quite probably don't grasp the seriousness of racist comments. It's good you said something to him.
Had the parents been there then a word with them wouldn't have been a bad idea. They would either appreciate the heads up that their kid's being a jerk or be jerks themselves, in which case you've found the source of the problem.
Supposing the parents are not in sight then let it drop. Mama bears don't like folks messing with their cubs, verbally or physically, regardless if it's justified or not.
Once I yelled at two girls (cca 7yrs old) beating up a dog leashed to a lamp post, on a packed street where nobody cared to say anything. And I think it was a good thing to do since the girls were in a strange rage, almost not knowing what horrible stuff they are doing and snapped out of it. I think it did not matter what I said but the voice I used had a huge impact, stern, they were so ashamed and almost started crying (which made me feel bad in return.. ) I think I overdid my evil teacher voice.
But you know, somebody has to tell the kids. If their parents are busy, their teachers not there at the moment, the responsibility is on us, everybody who knows better and is around. I have experienced this kind of not-my-business attitude and it does not feel right. I still belive in "it takes the village to raise a kid".
On the other hand, if you do want to do something at that particular moment, make sure you are not emotional, threatening or get physical in any way. An 8 yr old will probably not expect you talk back after some racist comment thrown in the air so it will make an impression if you actually approach him.
Once when some young kids were pouring water on themselves, me and my infant sitting nearby too, I did disciplined them and had a bystander translate it, it was quite amusing.
It works both ways though, we had to approach a parent on public transport hitting her toddler, not a nice situation either, but that was back home.
Under 8 I'd say your approach was correct - kids copy what they see, and they don't often realise the consequences of their actions, and need to be told - for example, my 7 year old is bringing rude/swear words home from school in German and Swiss-German and we have to inform him that these words are not to be repeated (even though they are not really 'offensive' to us because they have no meaning in English)...because he needs to know what is acceptable/unacceptable.
Kids also copy things that they know will get a reaction - to test out the boundaries...no boundaries and they will just keep pushing till they find some...
Not wrong - I go pale when I think of the racist songs that did the rounds at school when I was a kid, yet very few of them ever turned out to be racist.
When my wife received abuse (doing a "slitty eyes" kind of gesture) from a kid of similar age, she went after him. ( He was on his bike ). When she caught up with him, she showed her anger (but did NOT lose her temper), and scolded him - she tells me the kid visibly blanched. He was most respectful after that...
actually, that's exactly what that little boy did. oh, you're in Basel... i thought maybe your wife and i could gang up on him and take his recess money
can we assume for the sake of discussion, the boys swiss folks were there. would it sit well with them if i told the boy off? i think i wuold have the right to, since he was directing the gesture at me.
You should feel free to grab him and tell him you don't appreciate what he did there. Would it sit well if the parents saw you do this? ... That's hard to tell, as not everyone reacts the same.
But then kids at that age just mimmick anything and everyone they come across, even amongst themselves, at school, on the bus, at the swimming pool...
Interesting thread. Discipline of children is beginning to cause quite a few problems now, especially in the schools. Seems a lot of parents have relinquished this role, or don`t know how to do it?
The results of this lack is showing itself in odd (and sometimes disturbing)behaviour patterns that are beginning to be a concern to the social and education folk.
One of the programmes introduced to try and curb this trend is to bring in retired folk to help out in the classrooms. I`m enrolled in this, and has been quite an eye-opener for me! Most kids in the primary schools are driving their teachers insane, by their sheer lack of respect, of obeying rules, and general running amok in the classrooms.
I can see that the Older Generation of us Seniors, who were brought up more strictly have a sort of "look" in our eye that simmers down these youngsters - at the same time we do not have the responsibilities of the teachers - as we just drift around helping where we can with whatever they are involved in.
My opinion on reacting to cheeky remarks by kids is the same as all of you have opinioned here ...... to make the little person aware that what they have done/said is not socially acceptable. And if the parent is around, I`d say they could do with a reminder as well! Sometimes, if one is a bit gob-smacked at a remark, a good rejoinder could be the old "Excuse me, could you repeat that please?" By repeating it, it loses its initial impact, and sounds foolish.
You were right to tell the kid his gesture was unacceptable and he seemed to get the message. That was enough. Anything more would have been over the top.
I agree with Nev. In addition, as a parent, I would hope that if my son (when he gets old enough to be out and about on his own) made a racist or in any way disrespectful comment to anyone that they would firmly tell him that it is not on!
I certainly wouldn't condone the person losing their temper, and that's purely because this would send the wrong message to my son.
One thing I have learned in my years as a Cub Scout Leader (8 to 11 year olds) and now as a mother is that if you come down to their level and get lippy or clever with them they will beat you hands down.
Also seeking advice here. I am asian female. For some reason I have encountered like 4 or 5 times where swiss male teenager (or people appear to be that age) harrasses me, either by making strange noises or suddenly scream at me right at my year as I walk pass by him. As a matter of fact, this also occurred when I was in Germany and England...Generally it happens more commonly when I walk along with another asian female, but never so when with my husband. Maybe female of other races encounter this, so let's not start with the racism thread. Anyways...any advice on dealing with these teens? Tired of pretending not to hear....
hi everyone, and thanks for all the comments! I'd glad i posted, i got a lotta parental insight, which i do not have as yet more than that, the general opinion here is, as musicchick put it,"it takes the village to raise the kids." I couldn't agree more. there're nothing worse than ambivalence.
also some really useful suggestions about how to react, i would really keep those in mind
But whatever you do, do not "feel free to grab him..."Not litrerally anyway.
That would get you into trouble with Mama Bear and others besides!
well, ok, that's happened to me before as a kid, and it was traumatising, so i wont be doing any grabbing, certainly not an 8 yr old. i prefer the i'm-friendly-even-though-i-dont-look-like-u-but-wont-take-your-crap approach
btw, u r swiss, right? are u trying to sabotage me??
Guess we all agree that whether the kid is swiss or not, with children, the best way is not a good scolding but a short quiet comment or chat. Most of them tend to feel quite self conscious and guilty of what they have done or said when they understand the harm they have done or the effects of their comments.
Many often don't even fully understand or think about their actions before it's too late but do it cos that's what they know, heard or have seen.
I worked in schools for 10 years and such things in Switzerland I have not seen them much but have experienbced them big time in other countries. It is often not a good idea to act or repsond on impulse to a kid
Sabotage you? Why in the world would i wanna do that to you dear Hsiang
With "grabbing" I simply meant you catch him by his sleeves, to stop him, so he listens to what you have to say. Because I imagine a kid who does something it shouldn't do, to run off. Does that make sense?
ok, fair enough, i had a different understanding of
grabbing
Love that one too, for sure
(I'm actually trying out the anaconda choke, d'you care to volunteer ?)
