Warning about SwissCaution and Mietkautionsversicherung

Accomodation, House and Garden
1
There are a number of comments in these forums advocating the use of Swisscaution/Mietkautionsversicherung without revealing the dark side of these schemes.

With Swisscaution and other Mietkautionsversicherung schemes, you are at the complete mercy of the landlord.

Under the terms of these schemes, there is no need to have mutual consent to expenses incurred when you vacate the property. The landlord can simply demand any expense from the insurance company/Swisscaution and the insurance company will immediately pay out the cash to the landlord and pursue you, the tenant, to recover that money. These are sophisticated financial services companies who will use all kinds of debt recovery procedures and will even pursue you abroad (they seem to have subsidiary debt collection contracts in most of the larger European countries and around the world)

Best of all, the landlord pays nothing for this privilege - you are actually paying for the insurance, but the landlord gets all the benefit.

In practice, it has been observed that some landlords will make silly demands for repainting, replacing cracked tiles and various other wear-and-tear items that are not normally a tenant's responsibility.

With the regular deposit insurance account, the bank will only release any money to the landlord if you consent to it. The worst thing the landlord can usually do is delay the refund, hoping that you will be desperate for cash and agree to some deductions in order to make the refund more quickly. However, the landlords can not go and start legal proceedings for things that don't have a good chance of success at court - they will only usually go to court to make a claim if there is something really serious like unpaid rent.

The usual strategy to resolve the refund issue is to

a) have a cleaning service that guarantees landlord satisfaction, with a cleaning company representative at the inspection

b) have Mieterverband membership and have a Mieterverband advisor represent you at the inspection (there is an extra fee for that)

c) have insurance against 3rd party damage (Mieterhaftpflichtversicherung)

d) refuse to give back the keys at the inspection before the landlord signs the form to release the deposit. He usually wants to hand over the keys to some other tenant on the same day and will not risk losing his new tenant just to try and dispute some speck of dust with the outgoing tenant.

e) take the deposit release form to the landlord/agent office at some time late in the day, preferably on a Friday afternoon, just before they close. This can be really irritating for them if they have a train to catch (Swiss trains are always punctual of course) and there is some possibility they will just sign it to get rid of you so they can go home.

2
This is bad advice as the tenant does not have the legal right to keep the keys and the landlord could involve the police.

A tenant cannot force a landlord to sign a form to release the deposit at the handover just as the landlord cannot force the tenant to sign the form at the time.

3
You do realise a landlord can legally hold on to your deposit fr a year after you move out so throwing a hissy fit and demanding they release the money won't get you very far.

4
In the OP's defence, I think it was more about 'strategy' than advice.

Everything you had said I agree with, however, Swiss landlords are renown for being pedantic when leaving a flat.

Witholding the keys to apply 'pressure' when signing a release would be focused towards overlooking the minor details rather than the major.

(a 'spot' on the floor, as opposed to the kitchen completely uncleaned for example).

The OP's strategy also assumes that there is in fact a new handover tenant, otherwise witholding the keys won't do you any good.

Landlords are perhaps more likely to just change the locks and keys and deduct the costs from your deposit.

(failure to return the keys)

Sadly, I still find the best solution is to just budget for the loss and employ a professional cleaning team that offers you a "guarantee". I would however ask the rental agency if they have a 'preferred' list of cleaners to avoid future misunderstandings.

(I say this because I'm both lazy and crap at cleaning)

5
Well, I have to admit when I read this I had to grin in glee, since you profited from the globalised world by accepting best paid jobs wherever you may find them on this world, why then for heaven's sake should everybody else (here: insurance cmpany) not profit from it when you try to escape from your obligations/responsibilities. For once, here globalisation played more than a rightful role!

That's total nonsense, silly you! Of course, you are resonsible for the damages you made, how small or large they may ever have been. Whether you may stand to your own's faults, or not, is never the issue in front of the law.

It much more seems to me that you just were not able to accept that for once you did not get off with your selfish attitude.

6
That's usually my tactic too - especially if they (or usually the hauswart) will clean - it minimises comebacks and has been cheaper than the one time I used an external company. My dream contracts have been the "sweep clean and xCHF/sq.m" ones.

"Handover" seems to have the same magical properties as "Wedding" when it comes to basic costs.

7
Re the debt collection.. thats a civil issue and especially in UK debt collectors have zero legal powers except being able to write letters with dangerous amounts of red ink and chequered borders.

8
Is there any mechanism to transfer a betreibung to a CCJ*, the small claims court or a bailiff?

If you ignored a betreibung, would entry into a Schengen country be impacted?

Or is it a case that, as long as you never come back to Switzerland, you're Scot free?

*County Court Judgement - a sort of UK** equivalent of a betreibung (sort of) where a court orders you to pay someone.

**Not sure what the process is under Scots law - they have a lot of differences in the legal system.

9
Scots law not sure of the or if there are differences to england so cant comment.

Above post should be england for clarification

For a english ccj it would have to go to court, you to lose and still refuse to pay. If you lose and pay then no ccj is recorded.

It would still need to be the original claimant that needs to bring the court claim though. Bought debts which are sold at few pence per pound result in scary red inked letters in the hope that the uninformed people pay up when presented with some false truths about ccj etc.

10
No, not an issue. Plenty of people in CH with unpaid betreibungs, they don't get deported either.

11
Just wondered if unpaid betreibungs eventually became a criminal matter and that would go into the Schengen criminal DB. I suppose it makes sense that it doesn't.

12
It's not a criminal matter, however the debts remain, unless you go bankrupt in a country such as the UK, where debts are wiped away quickly. A Swiss court will accept a foreign bankruptcy. Even criminal matters in CH don't go in the CH criminal database unless the fine is above 5,000 CHF

13
I do know of a non-Swiss who tried to re-enter Switzerland and was put in jail because of a debt. The debt had to be paid before he was released. He was an American citizen if that helps. I don't know if the same applies to EU citizens though, maybe someone here can clarify.

14
Are you talking about unpaid tax or more likely an unpaid (motoring) fine, rather than unpaid rent. They don't have Jail for the poor in CH as it has to be paid for by someone else!

15
There is a difference between civil debts (e.g. rent, bank loan) and criminal fines (e.g. speeding fine or a court imposed fine). The former category, civil debts, don't automatically lead to jail time.

Some countries also put taxes in a stronger category than regular civil debts. E.g. unpaid council tax in the UK can lead to jail time.

In Switzerland, there is also special treatment of the health insurance premiums, failing to pay those is more troublesome than not paying a mobile phone bill.

You may not face jail, but you may have trouble in future with things like applying for a C permit, applying for a mortgage and even applying for visas for other countries. Visas are not an issue for EU citizens moving about the EU, but if you apply for a visa for the US or Singapore they may ask to check your debt status in the country where you live now and those where you lived before.

16
Maybe the original suggestion was worded too strongly

It will obviously depend on the situation and the people involved.

There is a risk it could backfire - the landlord could replace the locks but would not be able to automatically take the money out of the deposit account without getting a court order or explicit agreement from the tenant.

So it is still possible that the landlord will act more expeditiously if the circumstances are correct (new tenant arriving same day) and if pressure is applied in the right way.

17

That is all nonsense - my original post was about people who are victims of unscrupulous landlords, not about helping people avoid legitimate debts.

Not all landlords are bad - but there are some. They will stop at nothing to claim for things. My post was only intended to help the unlucky tenants who end up in the clutches of such people.

In the UK, at one time I was living near the site of the Buncefield disaster (biggest explosion in Europe since WW2). The landlord tried to deduct the cost of a cracked window from my deposit: I took it to court and the judge very quickly ruled in my favour, he had had a cracked window too and fully understood the situation.

I had another flat in the same village that flooded, the landlord gave me one month free rent and let me break the lease too, without any penalty. So there are decent landlords and there are bad ones too.

18
Or increase your rental contract for another year.

And replace the locks, at your cost.

And denounce you for theft.

Tom

19
That is a bit harsh and hardly relates to the intention of the original post

20
No, your original post was about how bad Swisscaution is and that they basically screw you over. Swisscaution is fine and landlords try to screw you over anyway with or without Swisscaution.

You then suggest people act illegally by holding on to the keys until the landlord gives you the deposit back - even though they are legally entitled to hold on to the deposit for up to one year.

Your whole post comes across as aggressive and that all landlords are out to screw us and it is our duty to fight back. This is not the case, and even landlords who try it on are easily challanged and in my experience generally back down.

Swisscaution remains a good scheme for people who don't want to tie up 6-7-8K in a deposit, or can't.

Unless you have hard evidence of what you describe (landlords subjecting ridiculous claims to Swisscaution and them paying out without checking) I would shut up.

I challange you to prove it.