Just traveled to the USA with my Swiss husband and his parents. Had a fabulous time with them, but had to remind my father-in-law (several times) not to stare at people, especially when we walked through questionable areas where staring at the wrong person can get the response What the f*** are you looking at? or worse.
My husband`s mother was surprised to learn that in the USA we teach children that staring is impolite. She pointed out that in Switzerland it is appropriate to stare (it annoys me less if I think of it as actively observing) but not appropriate to ask a stranger multiple questions that border on personal. In the USA, I would say the opposite is true.
Oddly enough, this last visit to the USA I kept finding myself being annoyed that people kept asking so many damn questions. I just wanted to tell them to mind their own business. Had to keep reminding myself that this is how people show friendliness and that they are just curious.
Anyway, back to the state of staring in Switzerland. I am white, normal looking and my husband is Swiss...if anyone is taking a tally, people stare at us all of the time, even if I am not speaking and thus calling attention to my foreign accent. My Swiss husband does not think it is rude at all, which drives me crazy. I SOOO want a sign to hold up that says NICHT ANSTAREN or Bish im kino, oder was?
I do not think I will ever get used to it. When I first moved here, I would smile at the staring person, but this is not really very affective and they NEVER smile back. They either look away or just keep looking. Once or twice, when I was in a crabby mood, I gave someone a look like this: They finally looked away. Yes, immature. And I enjoyed it.
Such poorly constructed sentences I don't know what exactly to make out out of them.
Firstly, what's wrong with being individualistic?
Secondly, having a swiss mother I don't know where you get your ideas from. Having grown up on 3 continents and various countries I can assure you that the problem you mentioned is a global one and hardly restricted to Switzerland.
I hope you are not saying that you think the Swiss think it is OK to be selfish superficial and double-faced? I do not think any society actually thinks that those characteristics/values are ones that they actively want to instill in their children. (I deliberately omit the word `individualistic` since I personally do not think that being individualistic is inherently evil, but like all philosophies having to do with society and culture, individualism has some implications that are positive and some that are negative. But then again, I come from the USA, a culture which is intrinsically individualistic. )
Before to move to Europe, I didn't know what was a Mail Order Bride.
I am now since a while here and I see a lot of swiss guys with a wife from a different culture.
Which is a big contradiction when you see how ''in general'' swiss are not that open to expats. So how to explain their mixed marriage? I am not saying all of them are mail bride order because I am not even close to know how popular this is here.
Does someone have been here long enough to enlighten me?
I'm European but only heard the term on moving to Switzerland. There are grooms too, it isn't a sexist thing!
Mail order is a bit strong.
However there is often a marked race/ cultural/age/economic status difference in couple's which is not so common in countries that are poorer or have more liberal residential requirements...
Today I came across a couple that caught my eye, but I think I managed not to stare: a young African man walking around holding the hand of a very much older Swiss woman. And it is true I thought 'hey up'- and I haven't got the tiniest little racist streak in me.
If you look on Google under Mail Order Bride, you have a whole world openning to you. From website where you can order, to forums support for the one who order and forums for the brides. It looks like it is a BIG market.
You say you just heard this when you came in Switzerland. How come? It is more popular here? Or more open to talk about this reality?
Mind, I am just curious. This is a subject I don't know much about and I try to know more.
Ok, this thread was really not worth diggin' out... but just some thoughts:
- there are 30% foreigners in Zurich. This naturally leads to mixed marriages. BTW did I once read a statistic that equally many Swiss girls marry foreigners. It just seems to me that they generally chose more Europeans - Germans were on top of the list.
- Switzerland is a very very rich country. So if you happen to be a "potential mail order bride" - a woman who grew up in a poor country and trying to find a husband in a richer country to have a family with... Switzerland would be on top of your list.
- Switzerland is a rich country, so far more people here than elsewher can afford to do long distance vacations... and if you happen to travel to Thailand, Brazil or Russia chances are that you might meet somebody attractive there.
- Standard of living is very high here and you can support a family with one salary. A mail-order bride would typically not have had the chance to get an education - if she had a chance for a good life at home, she would most probably not be willing to leave home... so they are on average not able to find a job, but want to be house wifes and mothers. In most other countries this is becoming increasingly difficult and far fewer, well educated men could easily offer this. Those men can typically find local dates as well... here the potential market for husbands that can feed the entire family is far bigger...
This article is awesome. It gives a very good analyse of the whole situation on the relation between swiss men and women.
They are so far away in what they are looking for in a relationship. This article explain all kind of reasons why more men then women are looking for partners from other cultures and why so many swiss women can't find a man.
If the society here didn't keep their women for so long behind the stove, I believe those same women wouldn't be so hungry for independance. And those same men who were comfortable to keep things the way it was are now suffering from their own mistakes.
"Mail order bride" is a term used in the UK as well, where users of the services tend to be men who have difficulty meeting, and/or interacting with women. It does seem to be more prevelant over here. Maybe there are more men of that type. (Which, given the article above, seems likely).
My wife and I get the "looks" as well. She appears considerably younger than me, despite actually being slightly older, so that may be part of it. When we meet new people, they're often surprised to find she has an opinion of her own, is well qualified, well educated and well spoken. When she meets someone who doesn't seem to be able to rise above the stereotypes, she quite gently starts taking the mickey out of them... sometimes, they never cotton on.
This is a sweeping generalization, however there was a period in the mid 80's when many Swiss men flew in plane loads to Thailand and picked up a bride .They were all catalogued . Apparently many of them did not have much education and hence when they came here had to take up menial jobs..and it was not unusual to see that the man was considerably older than the woman...
No He didn't say Foreigners who marry swiss men don't have education. He refered to the mail-order brides. The majority of them do want to have a better life. They may have a good education but no chance to work and live a proper life from their work in their own country. Or have no education and want to get a better life.
In the whole scheme of why mixed couple are getting more popular in this country, mail-order brides are a very small % of it. The rest comes from meeting foreigners here or on trips, etc.
I am more interested on the deep reasons who bring swiss men to marry non-swiss women. Which I found very good answers in the article from MrVertigo above.
Hehehe.. I have a few swiss male friends who married ukrainian girls. It was a chain reaction effect: the first one met his future-wife on internet, and then during the wedding many other single friends were "harpooned" by single ukrainian girls. They were very lucky that the girls were english speaking and well educated. They actually are having a happy life now in Switzerland, but my friends told me also about that "bad" look. They think it's mainly jealousy as their wives are really gorgeous.
Main reason mentioned by my friends was the beauty, the feminine touch and the fact that in ukrainian culture women give men a vers special feeling and give them the feeling of importance. Again this is what I was told by my friends.
Actually the most divorces in this type of couples happen when the swiss guy is less educated than the foreign woman. After a few years, the woman gets more independent and finds her own way and place in the swiss society.
What about all the western women who "harpoon" Swiss men to get into this country? Why is this thread following the narrative that people from the developing world are all after a piece of our wealth? As if locals don't do the same thing... Does this make us feel superior somehow? And why not use statistics and data rather than just making sh*t up and calling it "obvious"? Who's educated here?
I had this discussion last night actually, the mail order bride thing has sky rocketed over the last few years, ever since I was at Uni and found my lecturers profile on 'Russian brides.com' it seems to have become majorly popular.
Although these days it's generally the Thai girl holding hands with the sweaty bear like paw of a 55 year old ex taxi driver wearing a short sleeve shirt and sporting the largest beer gut imaginable. Some people laugh it off and say it 'happens', but I think they ignore the bigger issue, it is modern slavery.
It is disgusting what the west is doing to the developing nations, these girls can't read or write most of the time and are being trafficked purely for sex. It really opens up the yawning chasm of human depravity when you realize that these guys know fine well that their 'girl friend' has no life has no education or future, but instead of helping them, they use them, and then throw them away when they are done.