My mate believes it's ok for "personal use".... and may have some P2P "recent" movies and also have open PPV movies on certain satellite packages right now.
It's clearly not theft but of course it is somewhat breaching copyright. As it's a faceless crime, does that make it OK?
What do fellow FMs think about this?
My thoughts - DVD films are so cheap that they offer great value for money, especially when compared to the high price of a cinema ticket in Switzerland. Since they are so cheap - why bother to pirate it?
Now music on the other hand doesn't quite offer the same value proposition - the price is higher and you end up with a whole lot of content (other tracks) which are usually rubbish. How much does it cost to produce an album vs the cost of producing a movie?
I have no love for either the MPAA or the RIAA but if it was MTV's celebrity deathmatch I'd be cheering for the MPAA as the lesser of two very bad evils.
Using P2P to get TV series that you just can't get over here is another thing. Is this wrong? Well since there is no way to legally get these (unless you have access to a station which plays them) how else is one supposed to watch Prison Break (anyone else watching this? Great series)?
If the networks made their shows available for purchase online I'd line up to buy them for sure (if it was a reasonable price). They could make them available for download 1 week after the release. I don't want to wait ages for an entire season to come out on a huge box of DVDs which are then NOT reasonably priced. I did buy Band of Brothers - that was very reasonably priced and an excellent series!
Let's also not forget that without P2P films like "9/11 Loose Change" would probably have never seen the light of day. P2P networks help the idea spead - more people see it, and maybe if it ever came out in the cinema (an updated version) more people would go see it (since their friends might be talking about it).
They've been saying for 30 years.
I lived in Damascus once and you couldn't buy genuine CDs - you had to go to a record store, where they'd have album covers, place your order and return in an hour. Hey Presto! A copied CD! For a Dollar!
I imagine there's not much money in being an official distributor there, but seeing as I buy more CDs/DVDs than I rip/burn here in CH, my utilitarian stance says: It's ok.
But I'm scared of lawyers, so please don't quote me
I think p2p will change once there are good options for paid content, like paid tv, paid movie downloading etc., i.e., if they can provide content that can rival that delivered through other channels.
He's still looking for that bunny boiler movie, mind you
What about renting DVDs and copying them when you don't have time to watch them? He says that he only tends to watch them once.
Also he records DVDs from TV programmes to give to his family members who can't get the programmes - is that bad too?
- oh, those poor millionaires losing money!
- it's happened before - does anyone remember the great 'recording songs off the radio crisis'?
I agree it's theft and it's wrong, however another way to look at it (like illegal software) it to consider that the risk should be quantified and decide what is an acceptable level of illegal copying.
Blockbuster movies makes hundreds millions of dollars of profit. Crap movies don't. Studios live or die by making blockbusters. They don't die because of illegal copies.
In many cases, as Uncle Max said, there are places where you simly can't buy the discs, either because they aren't there or people in poor countries can't afford them. Also, in poor countries, broadband isn't available so my mates in the Ukraine buy a $2 copy of a DVD because they don't know what p2p downloads are.
If movie downloads were somehow made impossible, there might be an uplift in cinema ticket sales - but that wouldn't sell more DVD's. My guess is that people download movies for the following reasons:
- Outside the US, we can't wait to see the movie (although European releases are getting faster now)
- Can't find the movie to buy it/rent it
- Can't be bothered to go to the DVD rental place
As technology moves on, it's up to the producers to make original purchases more interesting.
- Like re-releasing VHS movies on DVD so we all had to buy our favourite movies again
- Or hey, re-releasing DVD movies on high definition disc
- Adding interesting special features so that we want to buy the complete disc
Overall, I don't think the movie producers should cry "foul" and try to shut down networks, I think they should get down to the business of making better products and find the channels to sell them.
=DM=
Also I do think it's more the younger generation; my mate know someone who's whole music collection is downloaded via WinMX. She's 19......in 5-10 years time, her disposable income will most likely see her buying CDs, DVDs, etc by the barrowload.
My mate is proud to say he has 500 DVDs and 1200 CDs so isn't truly a bad person.
=DM=
stop hijacking my bloody thread...!
Anything you would normally have to pay for (films and music) I have moral issues about downloading. Especially music as you can buy and download individual tracks of the music sites.
It is theft, it does have an effect upstream. Less money for production companies (music and film) means they will stick more to profittable, main stream, products and will be less likely to take risk.
All in my opinion, of course. Which I'm not hypocritical enough to call humble
Nicky
The 'moral' point is, Movie, Song. Game or TV show. It's all equally illegal if you are distributing copyrighted material without permission.
My point is, I couldn't give a toss about that. I've paid enough for CDs, DVDs, computer games and Satellite telly to last a lifetime. Peer to Peer is great, it lets me get stuff I wouldn't otherwise try and if something is really good enough, I'll buy the original and support the content producer.
Gav
Music - For me mainly is the way to check if you like a product before buying it original and stuck it in the car.
Movies - I download only crap films eg.: Doom, or film my girlfriend wouldn't watch with me, be it the cinema or on a rented dvd eg.: Scary Movie [n].
Games - Multiplayer online, mostly, you have to have the original for the key, and is good that for a good game, people pays. Single player? :-/
Share is good. Greed is evil.
I think I'll change my handle to Yellow Beard... I wept when Napster was taken down! If I can download it, I will. I don't collect, I'm not a hoarder, buying movies or music, I don't get it, ... the formats change etc. Sorting by genre, alphabet, release artist etc It's all to anorak for me, not good for potential OCD candidates.
It's all too disposable so I don't need to attach any value to it, I can lose it. I don't keep stuff so I don't buy stuff. Never bought any software, games, music, nada after my mother dumped by old vinyl collection in the bin when I went walkabout...although i did buy a few precious Tom Waits CDs, and only because for once I'm interested in all of the tracks.
Bottom line, all industries who claim to be affected are going to have to change the way they approach distribution and availability if they want to lesser the (most likely insignificant) impact.
The industries shot themselves in the foot by not embracing it right from the word go... they squashed one, others just emulate it and pop up, uncontrolled... it was lack of vision and foresight on behalf of the moguls. You snooze, you lose.
p2p, I'm all for it.
I know a few people with bands on the myspace.com site and they report terrific traffic... but very few people actually buy (and they're not bad bands). People are willing to listen and download for free, but ultimately small bands never get the chance to find an advance which'll allow them to give up the day job and concentrate on the music :-(
However, Artic Monkeys kinda prove the rule. (For those who don't know, this UK band's album reached number 1 via 'word-of-mouth' downloads alone)
Personally, I try before I usually buy. Or join the Pestalozzi Bibliotek, where for around 40chf a year you get a decent library selection of modern and archived material. Suck it and see!
News links:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13099
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/5085.cfm
Here you can read more about it (in german)
edit: safe is a pretty horrid site, who put that together?!?
Sharereactor did absolutely nothing wrong and hosted no illegal content on his servers. Ditto for all the others that did it - most of them agree to shut shop because they simply can't afford the legal fees to remain open!
I used to buy quite a lot of music. A few years ago I made a promise to myself to never buy a CD in a record store again. Why? Because the record companies have turned me into a criminal for wanting to listen to music which I have bought on my MP3 player. I simply don't have a CD player in my car anymore - I have an ipod. Then there was the fact that they started copy protecting the music so I couldn't even play it on my PC, and let's not forget that sony rootkit that came out a little while ago that hijacks your entire PC in the name of protecting their "rights". Then add on all the children that have had their pants sued off them. The crowning glory came a few weeks ago with the RIAA allowed a family of a dead man a few weeks to grieve before suing the family of the dead man (after a huge public outcry they silently dropped the action). So sorry - I will not support that industry if I can possibly help it.
I do however believe in supporting artists - why not pay the artists directly and skip their blood-sucking labels? I actually found a site the other week that does this, but can't find it anymore...
By the way - Simon the guy who ran sharereactor also runs respectp2p.org - there's some stuff on there about his legal case / situation.