Also, the percentage after the job titles... like 100% (am figuring it means full time?) or 80, 60, 50% etc. I have never seen such job postings in other countries before.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does (M/F) mean in a job posting after the job title? I am applying nevertheless, but am just curious... First I thought it indicates the position is for male or female but when it's all written in German, it won't make sense using English for that part.
M/F: Man/Frau --> male and female
100% full-time position.
100% = full time (40 hrs/week?)
50% = 20 hrs/week, possibly mornings or afternoons only, or 2.5 days/week
80% = e.g. 4 days/week
and so on.....
Apparently also the same thing can be expressed as "M/W":
männlich = male
weiblich = female
But in this case, I think it's just Mann/Frau
So my guess was right, thanks for clarifying everyone!
w/m means weiblich/männlich and % refers to time per week/month. So 20% would be one day per week.
What kind of sexist company would say they prefer both genders? Are they allowed by law to advertise anything else like men only?
The more I read about Switzerland's work laws and culture the more stuck in the 1950s it seems it is. I'm a male but I would hate to be a working woman and try to find a job....even worse one that's on her 50s as older people in general are not very employable either.
So far a job role can have discrimination criteria based on:
Your citizenship(EU/Non EU) Your age (50+ have huge problems finding sth) Your gender (women are treated very harshly especially when asked about kids as well as salary inequality). Your appearance: what's the stupid obsession with a picture on the CV?
Shouldn't all these things be abolished by now? In the UK you don't have to specify anything of the above, just your name and your skills. Everything else is against the law.
You dug a 4 year old thread out to say that?
If you don’t like what you read/hear about the country why are you so keen to move here? And do you really think that, just because ads can’t say these things, the discrimination doesn’t still happen in the UK? 50+ men and women have a tough time finding jobs, no matter where they live. The UK, and possibly other countries too, look like they may consider something along the lines of their nationals first for job consideration. So it could actually be seen as progressive not staid and outdated.
Exactly what someone in the status quo would say. If you're already in you can find a lot of excuses to persuade yourself but it still doesn't make it right.
It doesn't matter what I or you do, hiring anyone based on anything else besides their skills is just going backwards and creates favouritism while businesses hurt from lack of talent. Perhaps that's why CH has such a huge problem getting talent.
Meritocracy should be the #1 goal of every society.
P.S If you want to know I check all the boxes of an 'ideal' candidate for the swiss market but I still find it wrong and unfair to have such stupid laws and discrimination in what could the some of the best talent available.
P.S2 Perhaps I should have made a new thread in Complaints but I found this as I was searching for something else and pissed me off.
It's no different in the UK, despite the thin veneer of "how progressive" the employment laws are there, you'd be amazed at how good HR departments are at distilling information from CVs which isn't categorically stated. Then, if it wasn't obvious from your CV, the interview process then weeds out any "unsavouriness" from the short list.
It's difficult anywhere to get a job the closer you are to retirement, plus there was a recent report in the UK about many employers simply not employing women of child-bearing age, especially small companies where extended maternity leave is costly.
It's easy to have an expat-stylie rant at the Swiss employment market but, deep down, it's no different to most other places.
By the way, I'm female, a mother and have a good job with an understanding employer. Had a couple of shit jobs but this one and the previous one were two gems.
Yep, just cos something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been asked about my child-care arrangements at job interviews in the UK more than once, and was turned down for a job on one occasion because "we don think you can give the school the commitment we're looking for while you have small children."
I'm not from the UK, I just work here and was just making a reference. At least here everyone is pushing to the right direction (both the law and majority of companies, bad apples always exist) even if indeed you still get bad treatment sometimes.
All I'm saying is that it just seems so wrong to have things like your gender, age and the colour of your skin decide if you fit well for the role. I'm also surprised that there is also so much apathy from so many people in here.
I don't care to defend the UK or bash CH, just stating how ugly the facts look for anyone who is considering to move there. Also makes sense why there is and will always be a lack of talent.
To be fair, you hit the nail in the head about there being bad apples everywhere. Nobody is saying it's right and it doesn't go on but the sheer numbers of the foreign workers here suggests that the Swiss employment market must be doing something right, and I don't think high salaries are the only reason.
There are also laws here to protect from discrimination but, like anywhere else, you can get round them fairly easily with a skilled recruiter.
I'm 41 and I've been experiencing gender-based discrimination for the majority of that time - all the way back to primary school when girls did sewing while boys did woodwork, and girls weren't allowed to play in inter-school cricket matches no matter how food they were, which was still better than secondary school were we weren't allowed to play cricket at all...
I'm very much not apathetic about sexism, I've fought it every step of the way; it's just a couple of months since I objected vociferously to a manager describing me as "strident" in a performance report, on the grounds that he wouldn't have described a forthright male colleague using that word.
I am pretty apathetic about online forums though; I mean, it's nice that you care and are aware and all, but bitching about it here isn't going to make any difference at all.
It's not sexist at all, but rather has to do with the language. If the company would advertise for an "Ingenieur" it would imply a male engineer, since the word for a female engineer is "Ingenieurin". So, the company can either say they are looking for an Ingenieur/Ingenieurin or could say Ingenieur (m/w).
We just don't have that type of distinction between male and females in the English language, for a German speaker it isn't odd at all.
Is it legal to advertise a job which is not automatically open to either? Certainly the case here in Neuchâtel.
Clearly women have the upper hand if they will work for less. If I ran a company I would just employ women if I could pay them less, more profit for me
Of course in the real world you just pick the best person & pay them what they want. Saving a few CHF for second, third or 10th best is a false economy in my thinking.
Why should a woman be second, third or tenth best - could you explain please.
Personally I've never got a job because I am a woman, or because I agree to be paid less, I can assure you.
I don't think he said that.
I don't understand the question, however the most expensive person is often the beat value. Lots of people will work for free & provide equipment for free in the film business. Good luck until daddy gets bored. In Switzerland that can be from 50,000 CHF - 25 million later. The 25 million is real & from experience, it's better to support a business after you have told your friends about than to admit it's loosing money, then sell to management for 1chf &. Support it for 5 years before letting it fail.
You edited you post after the event, which you do very often so I will bite
You worked the majority of your career in the UK & not Switzerland, so your experience has little relevance. I believe equal pay was from the mid 1970's. Remind me when did you first work in the UK ?