We are living in Lausanne and my wife is a professional pianist. We have just moved to a new apartment as the previous apartment was in a building where there were many retirees. Even though she only practiced in the day and we stuck notices in the lift to inform the neighbours that we would only practice during certain hours, we had notes stuck under our doors, knocking of the walls, etc. So after 2 years of practicing on the silencer option on the piano which caused serious deterioration in her technique as the touch and hearing is totally different from actual playing, we decided to move out.
We made sure that the neighbours (upstairs and next doors) in the new apartment were ok with her practicing at home. The new apartment happens to be in a building where there are mostly offices and next to the road so its fairly noisy. So we finally decided to move which our previous landlord gave us HUGE HUGE problems in not allowing to move out even though we provided him with 10 applicants who are totally solvent a month in advance. But that is a separate story altogether.
So now there's a lady who is working downstairs in an administrative office who came up to complain one day that the music is preventing her from concentrating. Then she sent a letter to the agency to complain about it and the agency called us to tell us that the lady complained and that as they have been long time tenants and are a "big" client, if one tenant in the building complains, then my wife cannot practice the piano at home. We told her we thought the law allows for "noises" between 7am to 10pm but the agency told us it is only for "soft noises"!
We had informed the agency that we have a piano in our application and that we only practice in the day.
So is it legally within our rights to practice music at home? Or can the agency ask us to move out?
The problem with having rights is that you cannot enforce them at the expense of another persons rights. Where a conflict exists, the greater right will prevail, I.e. Many peoples rights to the quiet enjoyment of their home will supersede any singular right to play a piano etc. Rights are enforced within the Status Quo. As a new arrival, you appear to upsetting this.
A right is a right , only if writen and then enforced by the law. I know of no such Piano rights, but the Swiss rights to a peaceful environment are well documented.
Have a look around for a 'practice room and relocate the piano. My colleague lives in Altstetten and their apartments have 'practice' rooms in the basement... they rent one as part of their housing, and he can play to his heart's content...
Someone can maybe tell you what you are looking for in German - but they definitely exist...
The existing tennats will always come 1st, and if they don't want the noise from the piano there is nothing you can do. Why after you have experienced noise complaints before and had to leave did you move into an office building, were people may want quiet at work
I wouldn't want to listen you your wife bashing away on a regular basis either, so as suggested a place with a basement, maybe be your best option.
My son isn't professional, but his teachers would like him to be, so I sympathise with the need to practice, and with those who have to be in the same building. I have a house, so don't have to worry about neighbours - so long as he keeps the doors shut. Though some neighbours have complimented him on his playing, and enjoying listening.
I think you're unlikely to win this one. A few solutions:
Buy your neighbour an ipod.
Rent a practice room.
Practice outside of the neighbour's working hours
Buy a high-end electric piano and a pair of headphones. (It still sounds like someone is practising the drums though).
I find it really sad theat people get so hemmed in here to the point that kids can't enjoy themselves and beautiful music becomes an annoyance.
Maybe the only solution is for your wife to rent a practice studio.
It must be sad for her, not being able to throw herself into her passion. Summerrain, a lovely forum member, has the same problem! You could share notes!
In our last appartment, we had a woman who was playing piano in the attic in the next door building. We really enjoyed to hear her music!
We also had a crazy woman downstairs who was playing music from a huge Jukebox. My floor was shaking and I couldn't hear the tv at a normal level. For that situation I had some folks in here telling me it was her rights because it was day time, bla bla bla.... You play music and complain about the complaints, people will tell you are wrong, you complain about someone else playing loud music and you get the ''this is their rights during day time''. So where ever is your position, you are screwed!
Until you go to the tennant group and THEY will tell you what is acceptable in your situation or not! We can all give you advice but your best bet is to seek advice with professionals. Because at the end, I found out she wasn't right to play music that loud and if I knew that earlier, I would have save a lot of frustration!
In this current appartment, we had a downstair's neightbor who used to play guitar. It was annoying because it was all the time the same tune. It was ok since it wasn't that loud. We went to him once because he did spend few nights playing passed midnight. He was very cool about it and tried really hard to not go further then 10h-10h30 pm.
We went to ASLOCA when the previous landlord did not allow us to move out even though we provided people who were willing to take over the apartment immediately and with one month's notice. So ASLOCA advised us to write to him but he did not bulge and kept delaying the process. In the end ASLOCA asked us to go to a lawyer which we did and they continued the letter writing process and in the end, we paid for the lawyer fees which amounted to more than a month's rent and the landlord just replied in his own capacity. Till now he is still holding to our 3 months deposit and insistent that we treated his apartment like a hotel....so we are now waiting to go to the council for reconciliation...
All the neighbours are ok as there are two other tenants who play piano as well and so is there such a thing that just one person is against, then we have to give up our profession??
There should be a "Hausordnung" (house rules - no idea what the French is) that specifies things like when the nighttime quiet period is etc.
The Hausordnung will often state rules on when and for how long musical instruments may be played. For example in our building it specifies up to 1 (or maybe 2 - don't have it in front of me) hours per day and not during the hours 12:00 to 14:00.
As a Basel Fasnächtler I play the piccolo - and while in Basel it was never problem to practice, since we moved to Zürich I am conscious that the Zürchers may not be so predisposed towards such things. Therefore I play when I just arrive from work - and I think most neighbours are out.
In your position I would check your rights with the Mieterverband - and assert those with the landlord. If there are other pianists in the building, then it might be an idea to band together and write a joint letter. Perhaps in the end you can come to a compromise with the woman who is complaining - e.g. that you try to play at certain agreed times.
One question springs to mind - before you signed the contract did you make it clear to the landlord that your wife is a pianist who will be playing on a regular basis in the apartment?
I would imagine moving to an apartment block with many offices in was the worst idea. Practicing during the day in a normal resident block - most people would be out at work, in an office block obviously you will be disrupting people during their working day. Good luck finding a solution, a hobby room is a good suggestion
I have lived in two appartments now with classical musicians living in the flats above.
The first was a pianist, the second a violinist.
Both myself and my wife often work from home.
However, and I think this is probably the salient point - although the flats were nearly new and new and so had decent sound proofing, and although the musicians played every day, they didn't play all day or indeed for much of the day at all.
This made it entirely acceptable in my mind. If they had been playing all day long then it would have driven me to complain.
How many hours does your wife practice the piano everyday?
Admittedly an expensive solution but the Yamaha Clavinova digital piano is simply brilliant. Don't bother posting about how it's not the same as a 'real' piano because it is - it's a mechanical piano and only the output is digital and, of course, it never goes out of tune. Jules Holland plays one - you can see it on Later ..., yep, that baby grand, it's digital .
We have an upright model, the CLP380 , and it is the best 3K (gbp) I ever spent. Get one, plug in the headphones. Sorted.
I find it extremely difficult and frustrating to explain to non musicians why a digital piano does jack-all for your progress. I really do. And I really dont want to sound like one of those people who have kids and trot the line "obviously you wont understand till you have kids" but its hard to make anyone who is not a professional musician / working towards similar lines understand that a digital piano or the digital function of a proper upright piano is death on your technique. And no, I am not talking about weak sauce pop and rock pianists (no disrespect to Jools Holland) who play for leisure or at bars. I am talking about serious pianists who are working towards proper qualifications, examinations and performances etc with classical reportoires that just will not work on digital pianos or the digital function on uprights.
I am sorry if this is coming across as condescending but the OP has also mentioned that his wife played using a silent function of an upright piano - which Yamaha pianos have and I am currently using one of them - the silent function is used during certain hours or when I am working on getting something right - and I am not surprised that he mentioned that her technique is suffering drastically because of it.
A compromise needs to be reached with the office who is complaining about your wife's playing. I totally understand how frustrating it can be, trying to schedule YOUR practice times in order not to disturb anyone - and worrying about a knock on your door in the middle of practice. Worse yet, worrying through practice that you are annoying someone.
You mentioned that your wife is in Lausanne. Does she attend the conservatory there or in Fribourg? She can maybe speak to someone at the school and possibly rent a music room where she can practice to her hearts content on certain days and compromise with the silent function on others.
Alternatively, speak to the other musicians in the building. Ask them how they've coped. As far as I know, music playing cannot be stopped (none of that "soft noise" rubbish) as it constitutes part of apartment living though the law is really not clear on the aspect of what is "too much". As for living above offices - I live above a lawyer and accountants office. I've initially had apprehension about this apartment but it was near to the lake and great for my husband's commute. Thankfully, I've not had a single problem with them (yet, touchwood) except being stopped in the hallway and asked once about the name of the piece I was working on. They are lovely people but I do understand that they have to work - hence I tend to only play sans silence mode nearer to 5pm where everyone is about to knock off.
How many hours does she practice a day? Cant be more than 6? Cant she do 3 on the silencer and 3 normally? I dont think 3 hours of music is too much - if she's a professional
Thats what I do. A couple of hours in the morning on the silencer, and bring out the big guns towards the later evening when everyone is about to knock off.
Good luck OP, I feel for your wife and genuinely hope you'll reach an amicable decision soon and not have to move!
OP, have a look at this thread I started some time back - one of the posts reads that under mieterverband rules in the Swiss German part of Switzerland, I am allowed 2-3 hours a day which cannot be limited by any housing contract regulations - that constitutes apartment living.
Check your equivalent in Lausanne to see if the rules are similar. I personally wouldnt go charging in and hiding behind the rules when dealing with the agency at the moment. Just really need to explain to them that:
1. you did indicate that you have a musical instrument prior to moving in
2. you will work out a compromise with the tenants below - and explain to the tenants that it will be unreasonable to put a total stop to your wife's playing.