What is our rights to playing music at home in Switzerland?

I read and re-read, and don't see the OP trying to annoy anyone, only explained their situation. They did already move out once, and they're just trying to find out how thing are regulated. I find the accusatory tone unnecessary.

A few points, in no particular order:

Solutions:

As noted, and likely your best bet if you are practicing 6 hrs a day, get a practice room. You can share it with another musician to cut the costs. There are plenty of suitable rooms outside of the city, in industrial areas, etc. Put some ads up at Migros, at the conservatory, etc.

If you want to move again so that you can practice at home all the time, you need to be clear about exactly how much you will be playing. Simply listing that you play the piano on your rental application doesn't cut it for full disclosure. You also need to speak to your potential neighbors before you move in. If they are always away during the day you could very well be ok. Set ground rules, follow them, invite your neighbors regularly around for cake, be ready to knock it off at a moment's notice if they ask you to. In any case, clearly, moving into a dense apartment block is, well... kinda asking for it, no?

Move into a musician house. There are plenty of musician WGs or shared houses where everyone living there is making noise all of the time.

Don't play the rights card. Even if you have the right to practice, it is incourteous. Don't make this a fight with everyone. You will not win.

To all the haters on this thread:

Seriously. Not everyone works in a bank. Not everyone has the same lifestyle or professional needs as you. Please untwist your panties. The OP's wife NEEDS to practice 6 hrs a day, ideally without the silencer. The OP asked a legitimate question about how that could be arranged.

Well you were out numbered there 11 to 2,

This following 11 users would like to thank Ittigen for this useful post: 10:30 , Gastro Gnome , Hsiang , Leni , mannie organ , nickatbasel , Nil , Peg A , portsmouth68 , StephanieWD , summerrain

You appear to have an undue fascination and reliance on "thanks" and "groans" to form your opinions.

Read the title.... RIGHTS would be established in what exactly, would that be the law, so they are looking for... answers on a postcard please. They 'moved' once because of complaints about noise and are getting them again now so....

There's a camera thread where Ittigen employs the same tone and OCD for groans.... I recommend a lie down with some soothing music

You're the newly voted Prom Queen.....CONGRATULATIONS

I think you got the order wrong here...arbitration would have been the first step in my books, not a lawyer. For two good reasons: 1) While you are waiting to go to arbitration the landlord is not getting the rent (it tends to focus their minds) and 2) Arbitration doesn't cost anything.

I don't know who Ittigen is, and don't see how his response in another thread is relevant to this one. He is of the opinion that the groans were unwarranted and asked for an explanation; members thanking that post suggest that they agree, I certainly do.

However, I do agree that personal attacks are an excellent way of discrediting someone

I just got rep'd by PapaGoose for the above post with a comment similar to below, thought I'd post here for transparency's sake.

The Op is fairly new to the forum, and asked for info in a non-offensive manner; I really don't see why he should be accused of seeking legalese to annoy more people. Surely, there's also no need to get all personal.

Art 684 Civil Code

1 Le propriétaire est tenu, dans l’exercice de son droit, spécialement dans ses travaux d’exploitation industrielle, de s’abstenir de tout excès au détriment de la propriété du voisin.

2 Sont interdits en particulier les émissions de fumée ou de suie, les émanations incommodantes, les bruits, les trépidations qui ont un effet dommageable et qui excédent les limites de la tolérance que se doivent les voisins eu égard à l’usage local, à la situation et à la nature des immeubles.

Art 684 of the Swiss Civil code states that one should avoid anything which impinges excessively on the neighbours property. This includes, amongst other things, noise. It states that the "nuisance" should not be beyond the tolerance level of the neighbours taking into account the habitual usage, the situation and the nature of the property.

Playing the piano for six hours a day in an apartment or even an office building could, objectively, be considered to be excessive. In this case I think the OP should either look for somewhere else to practice (where it would not be a nuisance) or come to an arrangement with the neighbours as to what may be considered acceptable.

Hsiang, as you appear to be so sensitive, don't fret so, maybe you should also have a little nap like a good boy.

The OP may be new to the forum, but not to CH, or maybe you failed to re-read that bit. So should be well aware of the rules regarding noise, certainly the number of complaints they got, and having to leave should have got the message accross, but as complaints have started in the new place.... Obviously not.

Thanks Mr S for the legaleese explinations & translation, I was speaking from a common courtesy view point in relation to having thought and consideration for ones neighbours.

I do have sympathy for the OP's wife's piano practice challenges, but none for ignoring the rights of other tenants.

If this were a barking dog, or someone playing the TV to loud, rather than an accomplished pianist causing noise nuisance for up to 6 hours a day, would reactions be the same?

Cheers for posting that Snoopy!

To be honest, its vague. My hausverodnung is something along the same lines too:

"das Musizieren vor 08.00 uhr und nach 21.00 Uhr und während der Mittagszeit von 12.00 Uhr bis 13.30 Uhr. Tonwiedergabegeräte wie z.B Radio, Fernseh-, Musikgeräte und Musikinstrumente etc. müssen so eingestellt bzw. gespielt werden, dass sie Drittpersonen nicht stören oder belästigen (Zimmerlautstärke)"

Terribly vague and definitely subjective to your neighbours tolerance levels. Its really bad luck that the OP has run into one of those low-tolerance ones.

If everyone could calm down and re-read the OP's posts, I dont think he ever said that it was 6 hours without the silencer daily. Only leading up to concerts but I am sure that can be compromised. But it seems like the complainant is not even tolerant towards a single ounce of noise when she is working below.

Professionals put in 8-10 hours max daily but just like studying, you dont do that for 8 hours straight. I put in 5-6 hours of practice every day but I split the hours. half in the morning on the silencer and the other half in the evenings. I dont think its 6 hours straight for the OP's wife.

Do you think they like repeating the same bars over and over? You get equally as frustrated as the person listening in because you just cant get it right, and you NEED to get it right.

i read and re-read hsiang's post... and just wondered how many levels deep of meta commenting/groaning we could get to if i quoted your latest post.

Lots probably but as it's bed time for some, and I need a ticket for the Spurs game I'll leave you to it

Another solution that comes to mind for the OP is to move into the sticks like we did. The rent I pay for an 8 bedroom detached house in the country is the same as I'd pay for a 3 bedroom apartment in the city. The kids can play their instruments, the hifi can go above volume level 0.5, and the dog can bark as much as she likes. I can even do the gardening on a Sunday .

We have all the essentials, two pubs, a butcher, a baker, a Volg, and a train station, and fantastics views of the Saentis.

The only question would be whether the op's additional inconvenience in getting to and from work would outweigh the ability to practice the piano at will.

Edit - just thought of another advantage if into hiking and skiing - in the right location you'd already be there

I think that is an important point. It's all about give and take. Commute longer but practice at will or be close to work but be severely restricted. It's a choice we all have to make, but expecting others to do the compromising for us may, in some cases, be somewhat unreasonable.

Well it really has to be as the whole thing depends very much on the circumstances: the property itself, what the "nuisance" is and whether it can objectively be deemed to be excessive. The commentary in the book by the Hauseigentümerverband (Nachbarrecht) makes a point of stating that it is not the neighbour's tolerance towards nuisance that is the measuring stick but an objective assessment of what should be tolerable (which I assume means a judge would decide). But, when it gets to this stage one is already in a nasty situation with neighbours and landlord, so is is really worth it. In this case tenants have the ability to give notice and move. I would imagine that most landlords would even be willing to do a deal to shorten the notice period in such cases and even perhaps waive the necessity to find a follow-on tenant if there had been a genuine misunderstanding (been there, done it) merely in order to maintain the peace. Of course if you are an owner that is a completely different kettle of fish....

Yeah, I have been playing for decades, and would take any beat upright piano over an electric one. It's not the same thing and I actually think it will never be. There is manufactured artificial delay, the keys respond differently, the dynamics function differently, there is certain resistance in the real piano that is hard to get in electric...It is a lot harder to play the real thing than play with the electric buttons to get close to the real thing. Same goes for music made on pc and music made with real instruments, pros or people interested in music enough will always hear and appreciate the difference. I think if one wants to be good on an instrument, forget the artificial stuff. Although, I think I still have a few years of perfectioning real piano before hopping on real upright bass

Thanks, OP, for bringing the issue, we are about to move our piano in here, finally, it is a beat thing but I am glad I don't have to play the digital boombox instead. We lucked out for sharing our building with musically inclined peeps, in fact one is a former con director, practices his flute often and spinet, it's beautiful, sometimes with his daughter. I grew up playing music my whole life, and being surrounded by family members and neighbors playing music all the time, one does forget there are people who need peace and quiet. I am glad we moved in the house we did, we didn't even know how lucky we were.

In my opinion, rather than moving in the first place you should have stayed where you were and looked for a suitable room to rent as a music studio.

From the sounds of it, you are using your apartment more like a music room than a place to live.

6 hours a day is well beyond the level of tolerance. You cannot expect your neighbours to accept this, particularly if this is an office complex and people are trying to get work done.

I suspect you are not going to win this battle and will be given notice to move.

If it's an office block, couldn't she play when the offices are empty?