Anyway, politics and BS aside, does anyone know what other banks refuse loans to Americans as a rule? There's tons of banks around (this is Switzerland, right? ) but I don't want to walk from one to the next getting turned down because of my passport. Have any Americans on this forum taken a house loan recently? Can you tell me what bank, so I know where I stand a chance? Thanks.
I just went to the Berner Kantonal bank (BEKB) to talk about getting a home loan. All went well until I informed her I was from the US, at which point she pulled out a printed copy of the bank rules stating that they don't give loans to people from the USA I'm sure it's a reprocussion from all the political bull***t between the US and UBS and I guess some Swiss banks just want to avoid any potential problems
Well that does suck. We have accounts with credit-suisse and so far we've not had any problems.
Just curious, do you have a C-Permit?
Yea, I've been here in CH about 10 years and have a C-Permit. Been gainfully employed the whole time, can speak some German, am a friendly guy, etc. but "rules are rules" .
I actually also have a passport from an EU country as well, but on my C-Ausweis it says USA, and that's what she went by. I'm thinking to change my Ausweis to reflect my EU citizenship instead (if that's possible?) My wife is from yet even another country, so maybe she can apply for the loan, as she's not American.
..just do like everyone else and say you're Canadian.
Jokes aside, sorry to hear that though. It sucks to be a victim of something bigger that you can't even influence or at least are not a part of it.
Yeah, my husband is a dual EU-US citizen, but our permits (I have mine because of him) say EU. I think it makes things a lot easier. Good luck, though...
you only speak some German after 10 years?
Is your name really Dack Rambo?
My question is, which banks DO give loans to US citizens? I am an American, living in CA, with a small apartment in Switz. I was recently contacted by my bank (BCV) to cancel online acess to my accounts, and change the terms of my morgage from 30 years to 5 years. This is actually not as bad as I've seen on other postings, but still has be quite concerned and looking into other options. Thanks!!
While UBS still do give mortgages to US citizens, they certainly don't make it a pleasant experience. I think they would actually prefer it if all their US customers just slithered away and left them alone. At least this is the impression I get as we apply for a loan at the same time as my EU passport holding friend. The difference in service and the actual offer is amazing.
I have now found a great mortgage broker who shops around on my behalf for a good deal across the whole market. Much better option and the rates being offered seem to be better too. PM me if you'd like their contact details.
Type in "FATCA overview" in Google, read the general info and you will see that the US is being borderline Mafiastyle when it comes to their citizens' money abroad. Basically, having a client that qualifies as a US Person (or even might qualify as a US Person) is such a headache that it really has to be worth the hassle.
I would recommend for any US citizen / passport holder to take an interest in the current discussion surrounding FATCA, as it will directly influence your ability to open bank accounts and hold securities of any type. If you want REAL advice (I'm just the assistant of a bunch of guys who deal with this topic every day), then you might have to ask a tax lawyer for advice on how you can arrange things.
On the whole, a lot of banks are seriously considering leaving the US / no longer accepting US clients (apart from, of course, the HNWI) as it is too much work and the risk of doing something wrong and getting into an almighty fight is quite high.
It shouldn't matter what kind of permit you have, who you're married to, what you intend or in fact whether you speak German after 10 years of living here. If some Americans are still finding it relatively easy to bank here, that will gradually change. Thing will get stricter and stricter. It comes from a basic incompatibility between the Swiss and the US philosophies of banking. It's very difficult to merge the two as UBS discovered. UBS prevailed, but other Swiss banks don't want a piece of their trouble. If it were me, as a long term expat, I'd dump my US citizenship at the closest embassy possible. Being a US citizen is great when you live there, but for a Swiss or other resident it's more trouble than it's worth.
Unless you want to return there. But then you could just go to Canada or Israel and pretend.
7 years to go....
What he just said.
Add to the fact that CH banks are now in a knee-jerk reaction mode.
As soon as they see "US citizen", pop-up warnings show up on the RM's (or the cashier's) screen.
Then compliance gets involved, blah, blah, blah - so my (ex) colleagues just don't even bother anymore.
"Americano? No grazie"
But I suppose exceptions would be granted for someone like say, Mariah Carey, Paris Hilton, etc
P.
Wow, this political BS between Swiss banks and the US is worse than I thought. I'm not some millionaire hiding wads of cash, I'm just keeping my neck above water, and seems I'm getting caught in the crossfire. I don't want to give up my US citizenship (just for a bank account? nah..), but I guess I'll switch everything to my EU passport to reduce the BS.
...or what about non-Swiss banks? Like Raffeisen is Austrian (right?) but has local branches in CH, would they still give me crap about being American?
As I said, it's really not political BS between the US and Swiss banks. It has nothing to do with Swiss banks. The US is leaning on everyone. Some countries without strict privacy laws are only too happy to oblige, while others like Switzerland, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Cayman Is, Panama etc are having compatibility issues. The political stuff you saw was the Swiss (admirably IMO) resisting, but it didn't start or cause anything. Much like your doctor's records are private in the US, so the Swiss believe your bank account should be. It's always been like that and I believe it's a moral imperative (subject to specific cause/warrant). The fact is, you're not especially welcome at non US banks anywhere, just that jurisdictions with stricter privacy laws will make this known more acutely. It doesn't matter whether you're a big fish hiding money or not. The only way the US can find this out is to rumble Swiss banks. They either roll over and find themselves out of business (I'd be the first one getting my money out) or they enter a whole lot of legal hassle.
Yes. If not now then wait a few months. They're all the same, international banks will be worse because they can have cross-border pressure put on them. Safest would be a small private bank without branches outside Switzerland. But you'll need 5 million chfs to consider that. And getting a loan with them can be more problematic than you're finding now.
Which banks don't give loans to Americans?
These days, most banks operating in America . . .
Be careful about that, I think it's more complicated... I have translated a few internal regulations on the matter and even having thoroughly read the stuff, I'm still not quite sure just how strict it is, apart from pretty strict. Again, if you have a US passport, I would get professional advice on this matter as things are getting "worse" and it's probably best to be prepared.
What I don't get - how come the millions of Americans that are so hell-bent on freedom and all that jazz put up with the IRS' behaviour that makes your average mobster look like a kitten with a ribbon around its neck?
I guess what will happen if Americans can't get loans in Swiss banks, is that American banks will have to start giving loans to Americans abroad. Have you asked your bank in America if they will give you a loan? The general rule has always been that you get a mortgage in the country where the property is but that may very well have to change.
Presentation on FATCA given by the Swiss-American Chamber of Commerce , if you're interested. It's a bit muddled, I'm missing a clear take home message but it's a start.
Thanks economisto and Kittster for the high-level overviews, it sheds some light on the reasoning behind the banks actions. On a lower-level, I guess I'm going to just use my EU passport from now on to make life easier. For other Americans who don't have that option, I guess things will be more difficult. Yea, those American crys of "Freedom" are sounding more hollow today than they did 200+ years ago
PS- Has anyone spoken to the US Embassy about this issue (problems Americans are facing when dealing with Swiss banks)? I suppose they'll just sheepishly tell you it's your problem?