"wrong" is a bit harsh - it does the job I want it to - every day I avoid the car commute is a happier one for me. Does my car have the wrong engine as well? ) I think the whole area has a long way to mature, not least of all the batteries.
That's really good information for people interested in this topic, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for starting this thread. May I know if e-bikes can be fitted with standard toddler seats (if these are allowed).
cheers,
If it's MOFA then almost certainly not.
Great thread!
I cycle to work every day, and carry one child in a bike seat.
From October I will be taking 2 children on the bike every day, in a bike trailer.
I am considering buying an electric bike for the ride home which is uphill.
My main issues are as follows:
1) most electric bikes seem to be very heavy - so you gain a motor but you gain extra weight too. I would rather have a very light bike if possible.
2) Many electric bikes seem to have inadequate brakes - if you go really fast, you need decent disk brakes to be able to stop. But I suppose decent brakes are heavy too.
Are there any electric bikes which are reasonably light, and yet have good power up hills?
As the ones which have only a normal velo (bicycle) Vignette and support a speed up to 25 k/h (irrespective of the speed you actually ride at) are considered 'bicycles' I expect you can fit one on. Mine has a normal luggage rack and although I've never tried it, I bet you can fit a child's seat behind the saddle as on other cycles. For e-bikes with a supported speed of up to 40 k/h and which need a yellow Mofa plate, I don't expect it is permitted.
I can carry my e-bike ( Raleigh Dover Lite ) down the stairs so it cannot weigh much over 20 kilos. I wrote about it at the beginning of this Thread. I don't know how much power you consider as 'good'. Mine is certainly not as powerful as the 'faster' ones but I can get up the gradient from Pfäffikon to Feusisberg which is enough for my needs. Best way is to go to a bike shop and try one (or two or three) on your favourite route. There is so much competition into selling them now, that you can be pretty sure you can have a free trial to test them.
I've had an e-bike for about 18 months. Mine is this Raleigh Dover one: http://media.raleigh.co.uk/Press/Ral...xe-On-Test.pdf , which I bought here in Switzerland from Easycycle: http://easycycle.ch/ Easycycle is a great shop if you're in the Geneva/ Lausanne area (it's near Nyon); it just does electric bikes and is perfectly happy for you to take them out for test rides up the conveniently steep nearby hill.
I LOVE mine, and along with my iPhone it's one of those 'never go back, would have to go out and immediately buy a replacement' if anything happened to it. (Incidentally, mine's about 45 CHFs a year to insure against theft as an add-on to my household policy). I don't own a car, and an electric bike and trailer combo can do pretty much anything that a car can - I can get home a trolley full of grocery shopping for a family of 4 weighing in excess of 50kg, I can transport a child, I can take the recycling to the tip, etc. There is no way on earth I could do those things on a regular bike - I'm moderately fit, but the hills around here would defeat me.
I think the first thing to decide if considering an electric bike is which power system you prefer. Mine has the motor set below the chain and drives power through the chain using the Panasonic system. It does complicated techie things involving the word torque, which means it senses how hard I'm pressing on the pedal and adds the corresponding amount of power depending on which of the 3 assistance settings I'm using.
It's still exercise; it feels just like riding a normal bike but with all the hills removed and a slight tail wind all the time. You know that feeling of walking on a bouncy castle - where each step propels you much further than that amount of muscle effort normally does, as if you're suddenly bionic? Well, it's like the bike equivalent of that. I still have to pedal, complete with effort, but each push takes me further than expected based on normal biking.
The other method of power is the hub motor set in the wheel. I tried one of these too, but didn't like it. To make these work, you start to turn the pedals and after several turns the motor kicks in and starts to propel you towards the maximum set speed of 15mph. The second you stop pedalling, the motor stops; you have to keep turning the pedals (although without any force if you like) to keep the motor running. I found this created an alarming 'stop-start' kangerooing when trying to filter slowly through our pedestrianised town, and didn't feel enough like real biking to me. I also found a bit noisy, whereas mine is virtually silent and is no noisier than riding a normal bike.
(Note: this is based on trying a model nearly 2 years ago; the technology may have changed or improved since then.)
With my chain-driven system, the top speed is capped out not by the motor but by the gearing, which is ludicrously low. The power backs off as you spin the pedals faster, and by the time they're turning at...erm... can't remember, but very spinny, then all the effort is coming from you.
A few francs and 20 mins work, though, gets you a new gear cog with fewer teeth on the back wheel and results in much more sensible gearing and assistance up to nearly 20 MPH. This is not so much to go at breakneck speeds - this is still only a sensible cruising speed on an averagely busy road - but does strip out the utterly pointless 'I'm going up a hill and still spinning so fast my feet are blurred' bottom 2 gears of the 8-speed hub and relocating them at the top end for ease of cruising.
The other thing to watch for is battery costs; when I bought mine the Panasonic battery was the best available, and the only manufacturer offering a 2-year replacement warranty. A new battery is upwards of 500 CHFs, so not something you want failing in the first 12 months. My 18 month old one is still charging to full capacity as I haven't done a huge distance: about 2,000km of local shop popping. I too top mine up once it's about half-full rather than running it flat; my impression is that this sort of charging is better for the battery rather than allowing it to go completely flat, although I could be mis-remembering.
Go and try a few, to get a feel for the different propulsion systems. It's definitely a 'get what you pay for' market, and you'll feel the difference between the sub-1000 and over-3000 bikes. Mine was around 3,500 CHFs, and I think of it as a really cheap car rather than a really expensive bike.
I really, really love it, and would recommend one to anyone looking to cut down on their car use, get a bit more fresh air and exercise, and is looking for a bit of not too strenuous fun so they're not all sweaty at their destination.
Oh, and yes, you can put child seats on them or use them with a tagalong kiddie bike, just as you would a normal bike. The only thing to watch out for is that a few models have the battery lying flat along what would be the parcel shelf, which might get in the way or make it difficult to recharge, so I'd perhaps avoid these.
According to a reliable source (Raleigh), the battery on my bike is interchangeable with a Flyer one. As Flyer offer a 'swap the battery for a full one at other points as you ride the Heart Route through the Emmental' it might be interesting to see if we could leave 'ours' at the first stop, take one of theirs, swap it as necessary along the way and collect our own on the way home. Haven't tried it yet but watch this space.
Another point, as the battery on the Raleigh sits between the seat tube (Sattelrohr) and the back wheel, the bike is slightly longer than a non e-bike. If you intend to put your bike into your car or broadside onto the back, consider this when deciding which model to buy. (I mean which model of car of course. )
That wouldn't suit me very well. For me the 'quick off the mark' was one of my reasons for wanting an e-bike in the first place. Stopping at a halt sign at a main road and then turning left, uphill, was always a horror for me. There are a couple of semi-blind corners like that round here and I was always glad to get safely across and onto the right side of the road again. And getting off the bike and pushing it across the pedestrian crossing, as I did once, was a dangerous undertaking too. The crossing is even nearer the 'blind corner' and a guy coming round it in his car nearly hit me and my bike! I like being able to put a bit of pressure on the pedal and shoot across the road like greased lightening.
Last weekend, I rented a Scott Fokus Ebike (mountain bike) and rode from Muotathal to the town of Stoos. The road was paved but steep in some places.
Summary:
The bike disappointed. It overheated in the steeper parts so the engine automatically shut down. After a 5 min. rest, the bike was useable again until the next steep part.
We talked to the mechanic afterwards who admitted this could very well be a possibility. He was not even sure if there is an ebike on the market to combat such stretches.
I'm going to try out the KTM BionX bike and see how it handles the same ride up to the Stoos.
Do you remember what kind of motor the Scott bike had (I can't seem to find it online) ?
I think it's this one: http://www.electricbikeshed.co.uk/el...ve-system.html , assuming it's these Scott bikes here: http://www.scott-sports.com/gb_en/category/10668/e_bike
I also borrowed a Stromer for a few weeks, and was very impressed. They are not exactly cheap but I think they look cooler than most e-bikes and are well built. I would definately consider them if I was looking to buy an e-bike.
I can not relate to the problems Smbuzby is describing, evey time I pulled away it felt like I was being launched. I found it pretty fast, but it probably depends on the engine type.
Apparently, it seems to be a swiss brand which sells some brushed engine based conversion kits : http://www.boosty.ch/en.html .
I suspect that all the parts are just imported from the great China and re-branded.
Does anybody have tried them before and have an idea about how good are they ?
Sorry All. The bike was a Focus Jarifa Offroad with a Motor Bionx 250 Watt High Torque Motor and the battery was a Li-ION Akku 9 Ah und 325 Wh.
Hope this helps.
For the real enthusiasts - have a close look at Gruber Assist for sale...
I bought a cheap eBike from Ricardo 2 years ago and have been riding it daily ever since. I do 25km a day five days a week on it, going up two hills I use to hate riding up (reason for getting the eBike in the first place).
I have a kid seat on it and a trailer in which I sit up two two kids. When I don't have the kid in the kid seat, I have a dog basket with a dog. I ride it up to 7 months of the year too. I only stop if it gets under -10°C because the breaks freeze up, or when it is too snowy and icy to ride safely. It also replaced my car for over a year.
I have had to replace the break pads twice, otherwise the thing just keeps on going.
Conclusion: I wouldn't be without it EVER! I love it! And its has more than made its price when I think how much it costs to ride the trams daily.
So my advice. If you aren't looking for a status symbol, if you don't weigh over 70kg, and you don't intend to ride a marathon or do a cross country, even a cheaper bike will do. Main thing it brings back the fun in riding.
P.S. The only negative is the weight, but given all the positives, who cares. I am small, weigh 50kgs and I can still lift it if need be.
I'm very happy with: http://www.veloplus.ch/AlleProdukte/...terReifen.aspx
This is kind of in-line with what I expected. Because of the low speed uphill all in-the-wheel type motors are very inefficient and prone to overheating. The motor has to shut down as modernday magnets loose their magnetism at around 80 degC.
I am still a big fan of the crank motor made by Bosch. My GF took reception of her IBEX with the Bosch motor, I am insanely jealous as it's a beautiful bike , the motor is very strong uphill and more comfortable than the Panasonic ones on the Flyer bikes (I find the 'pulsed' behaviour of the Flyer very weird).
I have to do with this :
Hi Bas,
Nice DIY bike! Although these pics may not help others convincing that E-bikes are the way to go.
I just saw your PM on a great E-bike forum: Endless-Sphere . I think that that forum can give a lot of tech-minded people very good and insightfull information on E-bikes and motors in general. Anybody who is inclined to build his own E-bike or convert a conventional bike into an E-bike should take a look there.
With regards to E-bikes in Switzerland, there seem to be quite a lot of E-bike dealers around, selling Flyers and BionX and so forth. However, the prices they ask only start from CHF 2000 upwards. The cheaper E-bikes at Jumbo (California), Migros, and so forth seem to get very bad reviews. However, it is all in what you want it for and how you are going to use it.
In the end, I purchased a CHF 730 E-bike for my wife, and a CHF 590 E-bike for me . Both from Ricardo.ch. We gathered that if we drive it for 2-3 years, we can buy new ones (with new batteries!!!) after that. In 12 years we may have gone through 4 new bikes, for the price of 1 average expensive E-bike (excluding extra batteries).
To be honest, I am not impressed with the performance of my E-bike, so I will start modifying it. However, that has more to do with my expectations than with the actual quality of the bike.
KR,
Henk
Just read this in the NY Times, might interest some of you: Over the Alps on a Bike With a Boost .