Which electric bike is good in Switzerland ?

Transportation, Travel and Trips
1
Because of the abundance of bicycle threads I think it's good to start one about Electric bicycles.

Because my GF wants an electric bike I've been looking at what's available, I am leaning towards

an Ibex bike (clever&smart sunny) with the new Bosch eBike system:

http://www.bosch-ebike.de/en/ebike/homepage.html

If you have an electric bike, which one do you have and is it any good ? How does it handle the hills here ? Range ?

2
This is mine. A Raleigh Dover Lite, made in Germany. I like the slightly more 'sportsmanlike' look of it (in comparison with the original Flyer ) and one main reason for the choice was the weight. I wanted to be able to pick it up to get it into a train, or carry it down the stairs in the block of flats. (Or, if I ask a guy for help, I don't want to be worrying about his back!). I've ridden a Flyer for over 200 Kms though and it was fine too, but as I expected, it was heavy if I needed to move it when it was locked.

I can ride both types without the motor running if I feel like doing so and with the power on I can now get up the nasty little hills which so annoyed me with my previous bicycle.

Distance is very difficult to say. I got nearly 80 off one recharging when mine was new, but as it can be recharged without negative results without being empty, I do it after a run - so it gets a top-up after about fifty, well before it needs it, as I use it almost exclusively on the lowest setting.

My motto is now - the Männer have muscles so the Mädels use motors.

By the way, if you are tempted to buy a faster than 25 k/h model (this is the extent to which the motor helps you, after that, you are on your own!), don't forget that it then needs a 'driving licence' and is no longer classed as a bicycle when 'Cycles only' is the rule.

3
I drive a Stromer daily to the office and back. Have owned it for a year now. Range on the highest support level 'Power' is about 50km. Mine is the Elite with Citykit. Top speed is 25 km/h, but the 10% legal margin means that power drops off somewhere around 28 km/h.

It is a hell of a lot of fun and actually makes the commute to the office an event to look forward to.

The Stromer is designed and assembled in Switzerland. Quality so far has been excellent. Unlike other electric bikes the design is a bit less conservative (it doesn't look like something Granny would use to ride to Landi).

4
Thanks for starting this thread. I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these, so I'm reading your posts, and the other information with interest.

5
If you have an existing bike which you want to convert to a e-bike, Bionx is the solution!

We got one of our bikes fitted with this system from Athleticum. Happy with it till now, the regenerative braking adds between 5-10% to the range depending on terrain.

6
I saw a Stromer yesterday - all black. Looked very cool. The girl who was riding it looked very athletic.

What's it like on minimum assistance? Do you feel like you're getting any exercise at all?

7
what was the cost of the kit compared to a normal e-bike?

8
Minimum assistance is 'Eco'. This only just about neutralizes the drag created by the electric motor. Not something I ever used.

The higher support level 'Tour' still requires you to put in some effort and will provide a good workout. Just with the benefit of overall higher top speed.

'Power' does what the setting says. Support is powerful and ends at 27.5 km/h. You still have to pedal lightly to put some pressure on the pedal sensors. However, as I am an impatient person I frequently find myself riding the bike beyond the 27.5 km/h speed limit. Effectively this provides a good workout and the bike picks up whenever I drop down below 27.5 km/h.

To return to your question: Yes, an electric bike is definitely a good way to exercise.

You will use the bike more often. You choose the level of exercise you want. Full power support on the way to work, break a sweat on the way home

9
So, this is not a replacement for a Vespa then? How much do these cost? Did I see correctly, they cost around CHF4,500??

10
Thanks BasP72 for starting this off, I have also been thinking about getting an ebike for commuting and getting out of the city and although there's an Athleticum round the corner, the only ones on their website are the ones, like localresident said, that look like granny bikes, not good. Like the look of the Stromer - now that's more like it! Also the Raleigh Dover Lite if they do a girls version. Can anyone recommend which (Basel) bike shop has a good range of these?

11
They don't come cheap. From what I've read you get what you pay for. There's a lot of substandard stuff on the market. Stromer bikes and Bionix conversion kits get high marks from the biking press - and both recommended here on this thread.

I do a lot a biking and haven't looked at these e bikes before. From what I can see, they're not a replacement for regular bikes. Reviews say they're quite heavy and difficult to peddle without power assistance. Sounds like they're designed for commuters where distance/time/speed is a consideration. Or perhaps it would allow folks like me to tackle terrain that would otherwise be out of their league on a regular bike. That's what I'm debating anyway. I certainly wouldn't give up my regular bike.

12
My boyfriend just bought a Flyer. NOT cheap! Was 6,000CHF! I think they start around 4,000CHF. He loves loves loves it! He is feeling the results physically of riding on it.

I saw a shop selling electric bicycles on Tram line 10/11. It was the stop before Dreispitz. On the same side of the street as the Migors/Obi. But I just noticed it the other day while on the Tram. Not certain as to what brands they sell!

13
I wouldn't touch anything that doesn't come with quality brakes. Some of the cheap junk that's out there is just scary. A 20+ kg bike, capable of hitting over 40kph, with a rearwards bias of the weight to the rear hub motor and battery, and all being slowed down by 5 buck Taiwanese V-brakes. No thanks.

The Stromer looks like the only design that has some thought behind it. The Flyers are also well built, but I think rather compromised. Even the Stromer is one heavy machine, and takes some getting used to for cornering.

14
Well, thanks for this thread. I'd never heard of an electric bike before and thought maybe this would be a better option for going the 2km to the shops. But at CHF4000+ I think I'll just stick with the 50cc Vespa which is around the same price.

Thanks again. Carry on!

15
Bionx kits start between 1900-2900 depending on what you want. If you already have a bike with reasonable components, this may turn out cheaper.

Athleticum has a reasonable range of Bionx products but I got the impression that not all salespersons there know what they are selling.

http://www.athleticum.ch/shop/produc...ex.html?page=1

16
Since I'm an electronics engineer and at the moment for fun building an electric bike at home (including having designed and build the motor myself) I know a little bit about electric motors.

My main advice: stay away from the cheap bikes with a small motor in the front wheel (like the ones sold for 990 chf at the Jumbo). This because of low engine efficiency and the resulting small range.

Among other things, engine efficiency depends on engine speed (higher is better) and engine volume (bigger is better). Hub motors run al a low speed and therefore bigger is better. The cheap jumbo bikes have a small motor (bad), a BionX is better as it is (physically) a large motor. Crank motors (like on the flyer) are relatively small but because of their gearing the run at a very high speed (thus compensating for low volume).

Against popular believe, a higher voltage does not mean more efficiency, a battery with a high Wh (so Volt * Ah) will get you far, a high voltage doesn't mean anything.

We went to look at the Ibex bike with the Bosch crank motor this weekend but apparently there was some sort of electric bike event in Zurich so the bike was not at the shop

benchtest of my homemade engine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPvsAS-dsf8

17
I'm looking into this myself. Focus is coming out with a new electro mountain bike this summer that is supposed to have a long range and is cheaper than many others on the market.

I've rented a KTM with a bionX motor and loved it. I went up and down trails, fell over because of tree roots, got up and continued without any damage to the bike.

At the moment, bionX has the longest range for bikes but the market is changing fast.

I've looked into having a bionX fitted onto my mountain bike but the costs are high and it makes the bike quite heavy. I'd like to have the possibility of going riding on a "normal" bike and an "electro" bike.

Great thread.

18
And presumably improving fast. That's one of the worries when you're shelling out CHf 4,000 to CHF 6,000 isn't it.

19
Hi all,

in an effort to become a little fitter I decided to invest in an e-bike, specifically a Stromer (see: http://www.stromer.ch/stromer ).

I thought I woud share my experience of this.

I am commuting with it from Embrach - Adliswil between 25 & 30km depending on my route nuances (i.e. how often I get lost).

I have the higher torque motor which while slower is better at getting my fat frame up the hilly bits.

I got an additional battery - which is very expensive, but I am glad I did.

So the battery is lasting on average 45km. I carry a fully charged battery with me and just swap it over when the other one runs out. This avoids the partial recharges that would otherwise be required that would in turn damage the battery in the longer term.

I am *extremely* happy with the bike. I could not contempalte this communte with my normal bike. But don't be fooled into thinking it does all the work for you - not at all - it assists while you pedal.

A couple of downsides (apart from the inital high outlay).

1. You have to get a mofa plate from the strssenverkehrsamt. Not much hassle really but annoying.

2. There are some nuances with riding the bike you have to get used to. When braking it will put the motor in "recuperation mode", recharging the battery. Changing between modes is not quick, so if you stand at traiif lights with the brakes on, pulling away quick will not be an option as you fight against the motor until it changes the mode back.

3. Quite a long waiting list for these beasties.

4. The charger has a fan built in and is really noisy. bah.

20
Pity you got the wrong engine type....

After carefull study I ordered a bike with a motor on the crank for my GF (for engine, see http://www.bosch-ebike.de/de/ebike/homepage.html )

I'm building an electric bike at home for myself, in the course of this I did some calculations. Too get a bit more technical, it turns out that

Power_losses / Power_delivered is proportional to 1 / engine_speed^2

So, for a certain delivered power level the losses reduce with the engine speed squared.

Going uphill the rear-wheel engine of your stromer runs at a low speed, losses are high. At high speed all is OK as this greatly reduces the losses (at 30 kmh the losses are only 1/9 of those when you go uphill at 10kmh, assuming same delivered power)

With the engine at the crank however there driver will always select a gear where the crank rotates at around 60 to 80 rpm, independent of the actual road speed. This means the engine can be optimised much easier, the range of speeds it works at is small. Because of the selected gear engine speed will always be high, also for going uphill.

This was comfirmed by the bike shop where we ordered my GF's bike. They went up the Uetliberg with similar bikes, one with the BionX wheel engine and another with the Bosch crank engine. The range of the BionX was much smaller than of the Bosch engine (even though battery capacity is very similar). Indicative of power_loss, the BionX engine got very warm while the Bosch engine stays cool. The difference in efficiency is so big that the regeneration of energy as performed by the BionX did not compensate for its low efficiency (the Bosch crank engine has no regeneration).