Yet another choosing a family car post

Transportation, Travel and Trips
41
The D2 will feel horrendously underpowered in the Volvo.

What about these:

V70 search - from 2010 - under 25k - 40km from Erlenbach

The 22,5k Momentum AWD looks good, the low KM 2.5T has a reduced sized boot due to the natural gas tank - but that would give a total fuel capacity of 170l - 2000km range!!

The D5 AWD R-Design is a nice looking version.

The Kinetic trim level is the lowest for Volvo (Kinetic -> Momentum -> Summum) - with R-Design being around the Momentum level if not specced as an option pack on Summum!! - that means you tend to have cloth seats, few toys and the car feels less premium.

This is the search for any age V70 under 70k km - with 75km of Erlenbach

42
Ok, got that. And anyway the ad for the D2 was just removed a minute ago. Odd.

The problem with those V70 in your search is that they have a too high km count (~100k km) if we stay within the budget.

No opinion on the other two? The Honda and the Toyota?

43
You mentioned you wanted to take a "step up" from the Renault - and as reliable as the Honda and Toyota may be they will not feel like a step up. I've not sat in Japanese car and ever been convinced by the feel of the plastics - and that includes brand new 2015 cars. The Nissan GTR was woeful; the Honda Civic Type R a 17 year-old's Halfords wet dream

Something always has to give - age of car? price? brand? size? KMs? Equipment?

Check out the number of Volvo's for sale over 200k km - they and Mercedes are the only 2 brands with any love (in Switzerland) by garages for high KM cars.

It is worth remembering that back in 2008 - a fully specced Summum D5 was around 80-90k CHF.

44
You make very good points. I think we need to decide if we put more value on practicality over fanciness (is this even a word?) and go from there. And yes, unless we go with a brand new car which we prefer not to, something has got to give.

If any other option comes to your mind, please post it here. We are going to look at cars this Saturday just so we also get a better feeling and look than on the internet.

45
Unless the OP is going for leather and walnut veneer or other top-of-the-range finishes, she won't notice a difference in inside cabin quality or feel between a newer Renault, and Audi , Skoda or the others.

I've driven all those and there isn't really a lot of difference.

I suppose some people take a 'step-up' to show off or for other more subjective reasons.

46
Yes, that is true. However even though we say we want more comfort, more space, reliability, safety, few km on the clock and on a budget of ~20k km it is not so easy to say that all that = xyz car.

It is all very subjective and I was expecting it to be difficult but not this difficult.

47
We have two Mazdas.

A 2005y (1st gen) Mazda 6 2.0 diesel and a 2008y Mazda 3 (1st gen face lift) 2.0 petrol. The M6 has now 160k on the clock, and the M3 has 120k.

As you can imagine, they didn't cost a lot (as a matter of fact, both combined cost less than half of your budget).

Some random thoughts:

- Both are mechanically bulletproof. Never an issue. Suspension and steering are as stiff and precise as ever. No oil consumption and so on.

- The battery died once on Mazda 3 (100 CHF to replace)

- The AC valve once died in Mazda 6, total cost to repair including the full "Klima service" was 160 CHF

- Mazda 6 has really poor quality interior plastics, especially now in winter they are making all sorts of noises. The plastics in M3 are totally quiet, but are also easily scratched.

- The M3 2.0 petrol is so much more fun to drive ... but is also exactly 50% more thirsty.

- Popular tire dimensions and therefore cheap to replace as needed

- Xenon lights are worth the extra expense (we have them on M3)

- Rust is a problem with Mazdas! Most likely the only major one. Our M6 had some minor fixes done already. The M3 shows some signs of surface rust on the suspension. If you buy an older model, It's worth to pay someone to carefully check for rust and pay extra for a first owned car which was garaged throughout its life.

- Yearly service costs are ~100 CHF for oil and filter changes plus tire changes (2x40 CHF) for each of our Mazdas.

Overall, I have no issue recommending Mazda as a low cost family car. I just wouldn't exactly put them into one basket with premium brands. But as a matter of fact, premium brands cost premium in service.

There exists no cars which are problem free. If you buy French, you're very unlikely to have problems with rust, but likely to have other problems. I just like to think rust can be fixed by anybody, while others problem not.

48
Cabin quality from the Frenchies has improved over the last few years - but it still isn't quite at German level - simply because they have moved on too. The cabin of the Kadjar has a nice Jaguar F-Type grab handle on the centre console for the passenger - and the plastics have taken a step up. But the drooping large expanse of single tone plastic in front of the passenger looks a bit boring.

That's not to say that they can't lack cabin flair - I'm a sucker for the cabin of the Cactus - but you can feel it is a 30k and not a 60k or 90k car.

Don't get me wrong, we don't all need top-end premium cars with every conceivable gadget and the traditional "lower end" manufacturers have had to raise their quality to move them selves away from the budget companies - often under their own sub-brand - but if you can't tell the difference between an Audi A6 and a Renault Kadjar you need to be directed to the Dacia showroom and be forced to buy a Dokker - which after all will tick every box the OP wanted

49
Thank you for this. We are also looking into a Mazda so this is good to know.

Ahahahahah! No, thanks. Even I can see the difference.

50
Please don't call them M3 or M6...

51
Have you considered an Alfa Romeo? The 159 Sportwagon (combi) should come in pretty cheap now. If you can still get the 2.4 diesel engine go for that, it pulls like a train and doesn't drink that much. The newer 2.0 diesel is good as well, same for the 1.8 turbo petrol.

I don't know about taxes and insurance in Switzerland, mind, and travelling "not light" means different things to different people. That being said, I have a friend who has two small sons and he never complained about boot space.

52
An M6 with 160k - you'd have to be brave

53
This will sound irrational but my father had 3 Alfa Romeos and those things were always having a myriad of problems. Sometimes I think he was just being a masochist buying one after the other. They look pretty but I don't have fond memories of my childhood cars. Thank you for the suggestion but not for me (again I mentioned this would sound irrational).

54
It's not irrational at all. Most car people have exactly one Alfa in their life...

55
Exactly. My brother wanted to follow on our dad's shoes and bought one. Well it lasted 9 months before the first big problem. It was brand new.

56
Maybe you want 2 cars, if you have 2 spaces, and a switchable plate.

Then you plan servicing with trips to Germany, you have a backup, etc. I had an older Audi S6 V8 with removable tow bar, roof bars and removable roof box, which lasted 10 years no major issues and cost < 10K chf to buy, still being worth $$ at the end. Small car I had a Fiat which cost 300chf, lasted 3 years then scrapped (clutch issues), then a small VW Lupo which cost 4K and lasted 4 years so far.

I see some nice older VW Polo's, low KMs, galvanised body that won't rust. Literally less than 1K chf. It is great having a small, common, cheap car that every garage can quote to fix. will fit easily in any space around town, and a big safe 4x4 holiday car that can top 250kph. One car simply can't do it all. Aim for less than 10K depreciation over 10 years too and reasonable servicing costs.

57
This is what we are planning to do.

We have our old Megane that will be our 2nd backup car always parked and only on the road when the main family car will be in the garage.

This is why we are looking for a nicer and bigger car now. And also because I don't know if our 2004 Megane with 147k km will last much longer. Also we are running on french insurance in Switzerland which is probably far from ideal. We just arrived in December but that is the only reason that we can wait but not too much either because French car > registration here > swiss insurance > better to do one plate for 2 cars > so buying family car and including both in the plate.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

58
If will have to pass a Swiss MFK - which, unless you are very very lucky and the car is in perfect condition, it won't.

59
Forgot the MFK. Really? Well so I guess we need to forget about keeping it. The car is not in perfect condition. I see all the pristine cars around me and I have this parisian Megane with all its french "charm".

ETA: is it worth it to try the MFK though? What kind of issues do they look for?

ETAbis: what if I go with my 9 month old baby, would that help? :P I'm just kidding and dreaming here, don't mind me.

60
EVERYTHING - and if you turn up on foreign plates they'll spend even longer checking everything.