Hi, I have read many of the threads on schooling but wanted some more personal opinions if possible.
My question is simple, what do you think of the Swiss Secondary School system?
My situation is we came here over a year ago and my children have settled very well in to the local primary school, my main concern is my son who is 11 is now in Klasse 5 and will go to Secondary level of school next summer. He is bright but as yet not fluent in German, although he manages very well speaking with his friends and teachers, the written German still has a lot to develop.
My worry is what level they will put him in to and how this affects his future? Coming from Scotland he would have been going in to 1st year of high school where he would cover all subjects then in 3rd year choose his subjects and then sit his exams. Which would then determine whether he would be able to go to Uni or not.
My worry is that the Swiss system decides to early on the childs ability. Please correct me if I am wrong and let me have your opinions, thanks.
Hm, I don't think this is such an easy question since it depends on what canton you're in.
I came to Switzerland when I was 15 and repeated my 8th school year just so that I'd have an extra year to figure out what's what and what I wanted to do afterwards.
The most important thing I learned was that there's no point in stressing to squeeze yourself inot gymnasium if that's not where you belong. And if it really is just the language that is keeping you back, then you can always switch a year or two later.
I am not happy at all with the "Swiss system" of early selection and segregation. I personally feel it indeed does influence a child's future to a very large extent.
So if I were to have my children in a Swiss public secondary school I would be very, very observant and not take every recommendation that the school board gives about my child for granted. And if in any doubt, I wouldn't hesitate to move my child to a private school.
I have huge concerns too and my son is only in Kindergarten. Proficiency/ fluency in high German is essential if you want your children to have any choice academically. The argument that every child is not for Gymni is a rubbish one, this is not about what your child does, it is about the choices they have at the time they are given them.
Streaming kids at so young an age is not educationally sound as children need time to catch-up, develop and at a later age can make more effective/ realistic choices based on their ability and talents.
But on the other extreme you have the "European" "equal-opportunities" approach in many countries. And unfortunately in many cases this approach neglects (by paying attention solely to the ones having problems) to nurture the "top-promising" children (by assuming that they are smart and will somehow manage).
In addition to that I don't think that lowering requirements and standards will do any good and that not everyone [is suited / have] to go to the university.
I generally like and support the Swiss system, but it's sometimes problematic because at 12 or 13 it isn't always clear to which school a pupil belongs. But as long as your kid goes to either Gymnasium or Sekundarschule (different names in different cantons) it's fine, as the system has become much, much more permeable in the last decade. There are plenty of people changing levels and managing very well. But the ability to speak German is extremely decisive in which school he can go to and what grades he will get, in every subject that is dependant on language.
The swiss system isnt as bad as its made out to be, because you always have the possibility to change to a higher group, you can even make the matura as an adult(which isnt possible in a lot of systems)
My kids both went through it, my daughter is now a vet and my son who didnt like learning could still do an apprentiship in the bank, not all kids want to go to uni. and here in Switzerland theres still lots of jobs open
spot on! my son did 1 year in school in the uk before we moved here, at the whole class was dragged down to the lowest person, resulting in the brighter children being bored stupid.
Sorry but thats life, and the sooner children learn and realise that the better, all this PC rubbish of no losers, everyones a winner is total madness.
I agree with what you're saying, but on the other hand - not all students progress at the same rate, and not all children mature at the same rate. Some are bored with school and are branded "stupid" and get streamed into areas where they may not flourish or enjoy, simply because the schools let them down or they were judged on certain issues.
Have you got/had children at secondary level in swiss schools or private schools, just wanted to know if your view is general or related to your own experience?
Thanks Tesso, can I ask at what age your children started in the Swiss school system?
I agree not all kids want to go to uni and do like the fact that unlike the UK they have the apprenticeship idea, I'm just unaware as to what types of apprenticeships these are, I was thinking just basic jobs or is it more advanced, where in the UK for similar they would need further education to do same said job?
This is particularly relevant to us now. Our eldest is due to go on to "CO" (Cycle d'orientation) next year and there was a parents' meeting to explain the system.
In Fribourg, year 6 kids have to take the "PPO", essentially an 11+ exam. This, combined with their continous assessment determines which stream they go into. It is mainly determined by their proficiency in French, Maths, German and Environment (ie History, Geography, Science), with French and Maths having slightly more weight than the others. From what we know from friends, pre-gymnasium is pretty intense, and kids have to be not only bright, but organised to boot. There is less emphasis on French, Maths and basic Science, but more on Latin for example. However, if a child maintains a consistently good performance in the lower streams, they would have the opportunity to move up the following year. So it is not as rigid as some people believe. Our daughter has had all her education here, but still her French is not "perfect", however she is very strong on the otehrs and I can help her with her German quite a bit. Actually, since she speaks English, she probably has somewhat of an advantage compared with her calssmates who have no English at all.
I think the system is OK, but could do with a little more flexibility, but not too much. Otherwise it would become unworkable trying the cater for every individual child's needs.
That is the fault of the teacher: differentiation of work is essential to cater for all abilities within a class.. and each year in the UK is usually streamed into 3 ability classes anyway.
In Switzerland, separating kids into different schools at such a young age sets their expectations accordingly - this, IMO, is wrong.
This is not PC bollox about no losers, it's about giving kids choices and time - all children deserve that equally.
My kids did all swiss school but Ive got friends from australia whos kid was in the 5th class when they came, he repeated the last year of junior school (to learn a bit better German)then went on to do the Sec did night school and is now a teacher.
Another girl was put into the real after a year they changed her over into Sec(she repeated the first year) at the moment shes in charge of a large office.
My daughter finished uni last year at 29 years old(she did a gap year) and was still one of the youngest in the class, lots of people in Switzerland do things the long way round
In which systems wouldn't that be possible? All systems I am familiar lets you take matura as an adult and some of them a lot easier than the Swiss system.
No, I have however lived in Switerland for 20 years and been in a position where I have hired and worked with many youngsters coming out of the Swiss system.
What I have seen has convinced me to seek other solutions for my children.
Thanks again, so from what I can gather then there are more options in a way when it comes to what career prospects you have here without the need to have a degree/university cert in comparison to the UK?
My son has just started secondary school. The schools seems to be very language biased so it's a big advantage to be good at German and French. Going to University is not so normal here and I have the impression that only the top ones get the chance. The key would to do a matura which I understand is possible even if your child is in "Sek. A". My son will get the chance to specialise later in certain subjects.
The school system is very different to the UK. It's a good idea to find out how the system can work for your child.
I did a few months of the 2nd Sec. here in Switzerland. I had just finished G.10 at home (Canada), and I believe the people in my class were a year younger than me.
I found the level of education to be a couple years ahead of back home, but more surprising was the focus and eagerness to learn.
On the other hand, I felt the trend of extreme streaming, as almost all of the students had decided on a life career. Very scary to make such a decision at 15. I think only 1 or 2 students (from 30) decided on continuing to the Kanton School.
I am happy I had the laid back 'destreamed' style of education and enjoyed my 'exteneded' childhood, but I guess I would have a more focused career with a better base-education in the other situation, Considering I picked a career which I would enjoy for 50+ years.
Did streaming in English schools not end with Comprehensive schools?
I do think schools here separate kids too young, it is also one of my concerns about education here. Having said that I do think streaming of some sort is needed but to me it is the finality of it that I worry about. I know it is possible to change after the start of High School I just hope that is not too difficult if it is needed.